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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-15-2011, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
If I find a way to make every player without exception 100% pleased and happy, I shall be a very rich Games Industry worker. ^^

You know there are Devs that specifically concern themselves with PvP. You have seen them on this very forum previously.

ANY and EVERY bug that gets reported and not immediately fixed bothers one player or another. That is a fact. Not only that, it bothers the heck out of QA and Developers - and that is a fact, too. No one likes to see their stuff isn't doing what you designed it to do, no one likes to see a problem but be unable to fix it.

A number of things need to be kept in mind at all times.

- Not every bug can be corrected at once.
Some of these ruddy things are hidden well, are in a tricky-to-reach place or have other problems connected to it. (I have experienced bugs that showed themselves in place A but actually were caused by place B.)

- Not everything can be corrected at once.
Sometimes the person who can correct a problem is tied up with something else which is much more critical. If the person who could fix an exploit is told there is a problem that disallows a great number of players to connect to the game, then their objective may be shifted. That does not devalue one matter in favour of another. It simply means that some things will bump back others.

- Just because it is quiet does not mean we're not reading.
Especially the PvP forums carry a language and behaviour that not everyone may feel welcoming or enjoy to be a part of. We read a great number of threads every day. I actually try to have focus days and read on specific topics. But will I post in every one? No. Sometimes a discussion is in good hands without me popping up. Because just as with the Prime Directive: Once I show myself, the thread WILL change. People will talk differently and not always do I want that.


Your feedback on these forums does not need a special hat or a shiny badge.
It only needs to follow the forum's rules so I don't have to become the WishStoneHulk. If you guys discuss something in a constructive, peaceful manner, you can bet that we're seeing it.
Just as we would if someone stomps in, kicks down the door and screams at everyone. But that would have a different outcome.
We can all sympathize with what you have stated above but you also must understand that the only thing that keeps a lot of us here is the Space PVP.



This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines and Cryptic Studios Infraction Policy ~WishStone
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-15-2011, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
Just as we would if someone stomps in, kicks down the door and screams at everyone. But that would have a different outcome.
Hot chocolate?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-15-2011, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakma View Post
We can all sympathize with what you have stated above but you also must understand that the only thing that keeps a lot of us here is the Space PVP. .
To some it is the Ground Combat. What about them?

Also, final warning on trying to make this a discussion of exploits. The thread *will* be shot down if that's what the outcome is intended to be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-15-2011, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquizitor View Post
Hot chocolate?
Would not be my first choice as a deterent to invasion, but it could work.
Possibly if it is a 50 gallon container that can be dumped upon the heads of those whom kicked down the door? Would the tiny marshmellows be needed?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Hello chaps,

Now, let's be honest, we all know things have been difficult around here of late. The "PvP community" (as represented by the small fraction who post on these forums anyway) has been incensed by the twin controversies of Tractor Beam Mines and The-Bug-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named. Given a general mood beforehand that PvP had become imbalanced and neglected, these two things appear to have catalysed ill-feeling, and things have turned ugly ...

I don't mean to discuss or criticise forum moderation either, but again, it's an honest fact that the way Cryptic has responded to the PvP community on these two recent issues (aside from Snix's pro-active involvement on the TBM problem) - regardless of whether the mods have acted correctly and appropriately - have had the overall effect of infuriating many people.

Net result, is that there has been a serious breakdown of trust and good will between devs/mods and the PvP community. Especially when it comes to good will, I might suggest the feeling is mutual on both sides, and that the mods have become equally disdainful of the attitude of many players here and the way they conduct themselves on the forum.

So my suggestion is this: that the devs offer an olive branch to this disgruntled group of players, and that those players take it and use it constructively and positively. How? Well, recently Jack Emmert, DStahl, and Stormshade gave a bunch of Foundry beta-testers the opportunity to participate in a Skype conference call so that they could offer feedback and ideas on that aspect of STO. Devs are continually appearing on various podcasts to talk to people "in the flesh" so to speak and answer questions.

How about giving your long-suffering, faithful PvP community the same love? Pick a bunch of dedicated PvP players, sacrifice your lunch break, and have a pow-wow with them on Skype for an hour. Listen to their feedback and ideas, and give them your own view on things. These are some of your longest-playing customers, who tend to understand the fine balance of skills and abilities in the game possibly better than anybody else outside the Cryptic office. Why not use them?

Moreover, a PvP community conference call might help restore trust and good will between players and devs by demonstrating that you care, you're willing to open dialogue, and you treat them with the same respect and value their opinions as much as other segments of the STO community.

Failing that ... the PvP community will just have to make its own podcast, since apparently that's the guaranteed way to get to talk directly to a dev.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-15-2011, 09:35 AM
Can i get a "special hat" anyways?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-15-2011, 09:50 AM
I agree with your post 100% but I have a feeling it will not be well received i.e. perceived as a threat and therefore locked and probably moved or deleted.

The question is who would be the reps and how will that be decided?

I also think some PvEers would need to be included otherwise they will QQ that they were totally neglected and ultimately screwed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-15-2011, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
I agree with your post 100% but I have a feeling it will not be well received i.e. perceived as a threat and therefore locked and probably moved or deleted.
Thanks for the support - I hope the pessimism is unfounded, but if that's what happens, then it would be a truly sad indictment. I can't imagine why any mods would want to lock or delete a thread of this nature though.

It's not a commentary on community management, but rather an attempt to reach out. The level of vitriol on these forums and in game chat channels has reached dangerous levels, something needs to be done about it - I liked the spirit of Husanak's idea about a PvP czar, but don't agree we need a permanent PvP dev/rep, so I'm proposing this instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
The question is who would be the reps and how will that be decided?
Same way the community representatives for the Foundry conference call were chosen - by the devs, and entirely at their discretion. They seem to have a pretty good handle on who's a constructive contributor, and I for one would trust them to choose an appropriate handful of individuals. I don't think this should be a popularity contest for who we would prefer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
I also think some PvEers would need to be included otherwise they will QQ that they were totally neglected and ultimately screwed.
I see your point, but given that the focus and topics of the hypothetical conference call would be restricted to matters regarding PvP, I think it would be wiser to only select proven, established players with a primary focus in PvP.

While it would be inevitable that in any discussion, people would probably raise ongoing issues like the Mine Spam and That-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Discussed, I personally would also like to some feedback from both sides about other, more positive things - like future PvP content, the long-promised implementation of stat tracking/leaderboards, possibilities for Open PvP areas, etc. These are topics upon which a player with no experience or opinion on PvP would not be able to really give any useful input on.

Hardcore STFers and PvPers didn't get to sit in on the Foundry conference call. If there was a similar Skype discussion between devs and players on the future of STFs and Featured Episodes, I wouldn't expect or demand PvPers to be invited to that either.

(EDIT: Well, I guess you were partly right Data, it just got moved, lol)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-15-2011, 10:18 AM
Whos to say they don't discuss things with STFers and PvPers now? Remember there is more than just the people that post that are in the game :p

And ya know a number of us (podcasts and radio stations alike) interview developers, dstahl etc, yet no one has ever to my knowledge of reading the threads, brought up anything about pvp recently o_O...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-15-2011, 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amidoinitright View Post
Can i get a "special hat" anyways?
Phil Foglio fan are we?
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