Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-16-2011, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun421 View Post
As so far my post seems to be the most vitriolic (is that a word) let me appologize if I stepped out of the lines of this thread. WishStone indicated that this would be a good place for us to consolodate our ideas and concerns. My concerns are born from frustration, and I am sure that is the case with many others.

In regards to your suggestion that we should ask ourselves "does my post help our cause?" That is where I think a large amount of the concern is coming from. Does ANY post help our cause? We as a community have been posting about our cause since the games release, in various forms, and yet here we are today with another open letter. I've got my fingers crossed that things will be different.
No need to apologize, let me clarify the spirit this post was written in:

I'm very frustrated too Shaun. Since this game launched I've been torn by my Love/Hate relationship with it. Many times I've posted with frustration, anger and sarcasm. When someone approaches you and treats you with one of the 3 above, what are the chances you will be receptive to what they are saying?

This is why I wanted to try this letter, to attract constructive criticism without involving our emotions, or our frustrations. (Believe me, as a Fleet Leader I have many).

Also, I've toned my expectations down to reality. I know that Cryptic's team for STO does not have the manpower to achieve the results I (we?) want tommorow, in a month, or even next year. With this letter though, I hope to illustrate that even the most frustrated or arrogant among us can contribute while remembering to temper our emotions.

Can we do this?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-16-2011, 04:12 PM
I'll summarize what I think most people are upset about:

PvP is important to us, and we've had promises and expectations that have not been met. We haven't dismissed Snix, but the features he said were being added have yet to be seen.

Chaddington's fix for mine and pet spam is ok, but not enough.

We all want to play MORE pvp because we love it...but we'd like more incentive to do so. Right now getting better in-game stuff is the only reason many people play, and the only reason to get better stuff is to do better in pvp.

We want more arena and cap/hold maps, different pvp mission styles, open pvp maps, and we want them to keep coming. New maps are fun for a while, but we want a steady flow. And we want them now, not in Season 6.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-16-2011, 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone_Rider26 View Post
You guys can read this part of the forums all you want and we like that you do, but as any intelligent person knows its the action/substance that counts not words/promises. And we havent goten any of that by now, so if you and the other people at cryptic devs/mods-whatever cant understand why are we upset i really cant help you.
Problem is though: Posting in this style does not help me try to win anything for anyone. Open attacks will not help you or me to 'lure in' any Developer. The nice thing about forums is that you do not have to post what is immediately in your head. You can re-word things. You can give it thought. You can remove language that may make the poster look bad. Sometimes I have to re-think if I want to hit "Submit Reply", too. We're human, but we should have filters.

mancom:
Check out my shiny signature!

GreatMaker69:
By simply posting. You do not need to go saying "Cryptic: Cool idea, read here *smiliesmiliesmilie*" in the subject. Just write what your post is about. Cryptic - in a number of forms - will take notice. We may not always reply - especially not on something which was previously answered in another thread. We may not always have insight for you. And we cannot give any form of time schedule if we do not have one. If we was something is on the radar, it means we want to do something - but cannot right now. Also: Many Devs do not wish to directly read the forums. They do not have to. That's what my job is after all.

Development is planned months in advance with tight schedules. If you bring up something cool and our schedule is full right now, we cannot add it right now. But we WILL remember it when the next schedule is written.


I am very sorry for apparently derailing the thread. My feedback was not meant as such. I'd be happy to have you guys go back into the OP and discuss what he brought up before this became a Crypitc related discussion. It will make the thread carry much more worth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-16-2011, 04:13 PM
Perhaps it would be appropriate to retract the tone of my No Comment statement but really not the content. Someone recently pointed out that of all the sub-forums available, this one really gets very little attention compared to the STOL Discussion or Starfleet Academy or any "on top" sub-forums. As mentioned above, yes you've given us a lot of attention lately WishStone, but really mostly as a moderator, not a developer.

These are the types of things we need addressed, as well as what positive feedback we have given that has gone on long unanswered.

Another poster is correct, 7 months ago Snix posted that there are some PVP enhancement forthcoming, and they did not. Again, we are dissapointed.

So as constructive as GreatMaker wants us to be, it's hard to veil the frustration and dissapointment many of us feel at this time. I would hate to loose more in-game friends, mentors and fleetmates because they've had enough of not getting much of anything.

Cheers



This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines and Cryptic Studios Infraction Policy ~WishStone
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-16-2011, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
Problem is though: Posting in this style does not help me try to win anything for anyone. Open attacks will not help you or me to 'lure in' any Developer.
The thing is we shouldn't need to lure in a developer at all. There should be at least a couple people at Cryptic dedicated to PvP where interaction with the PvP community is in the job description. If that were the case we wouldn't run into "the entire PvP community vs. Cryptic" at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-16-2011, 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genxcraig View Post
As mentioned above, yes you've given us a lot of attention lately WishStone, but really mostly as a moderator, not a developer.
Wishstone isn't a developer. Look at the area just under his avatar. It says OCR. (Online Community Representative)

He falls under the same auspices as Stormshade. You know that neither is a developer. Or you should.

I tried to say this in a post yesterday but it doesn't seem to get traction. You (the royal you, not you specifically) aren't getting the attention you want because you're not going about applying your concerns in a constructive and useful manner. Instead, it's getting the wrong kind of attention and not drawing what you want toward your goal.

Einstein posits the notion that the act of repeating the same series of choices over and over again while expecting a different result is insanity. I tend to agree. If you want a different result, make a different choice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-16-2011, 04:34 PM
Well I know enough to know WishStone is female, not male. And yes, I know she is not a developer either, that was my point.

And it seems Auntkathy, you've missed the point that the PVP sub-forum has a years worth of great ideas, discussed at length that got absolutely nowhere in-game. Meanwhile never ending requests for lol costumes get acknowledged and produced quite apparently.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-16-2011, 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
The thing is we shouldn't need to lure in a developer at all. There should be at least a couple people at Cryptic dedicated to PvP where interaction with the PvP community is in the job description. If that were the case we wouldn't run into "the entire PvP community vs. Cryptic" at all.
You can't have carte blanche permission to run roughshod in the forums and expect to get a positive or useful response. Whether it is you specifically or any group, the truth is the same. The truth is simple: Keep the rage out. Point out game mechanics, why they aren't fun, why something isn't functioning as expected, how it can be improved, remove negative and destructive comments, and try to keep as objective as possible in your disposition.

Nobody expects any person to be devoid of emotion (of any kind). What the developers want is material they can work with. Saying, "I'm frustrated" is generally sufficient. Saying "I'm extremely frustrated" is also sufficient. Launching into a tirade, as others have done, is going to be treated as noise and ignored as such.

Pointing out mechanics without delving into personal attacks, discussing the meat of the game, and addressing the core of the issue is what gets attention. As others, Stormshade, Wishstone, etc, have pointed out (even happens in other MMOs, so STO isn't exclusive there), you get more visibility into your issues that way. Not every post that is amazing is going to receive a reply - but it will be read. The better the devs or CRs can parse the material and take less time to filter out noise, the greater the chance is for your ideas to at least be discussed internally.

In short, keep it civil. But don't assume they aren't watching.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-16-2011, 04:39 PM
There are many great ideas and points in this thread.

Personally, I'd like to see some kind of "leaderboard" or "player rating/score". Not only for bragging rights, but also build a way to control queues. One of the frustration of PvP for new players or even average players is that there is a steep learning curve to PvP. And it's often difficult for some people to learn when all they do is die at the hands of Leet Players. Players get frustrated and don't bother to learn/play better.

I think if there was a way to queue-up low-scoring players vs. other low-scorers, mediums vs. mediums, experts vs. experts, etc, have maybe 5 tiers (or more?). Then matches could be more even. Allow lower scorers to choose to play against stronger players, but restrict top players. If not out of all lower ranks, at least out of the lowest tier or two. But also have tierless play where anyone can play. It's all about options.

Also, PuG vs. PreMade. Have some method in the Queues that forces PuG play in some queus, or in others requires a PreMade on all sides. Again, have open/optional/any format too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-16-2011, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genxcraig View Post
So as constructive as GreatMaker wants us to be, it's hard to veil the frustration and dissapointment many of us feel at this time. I would hate to loose more in-game friends, mentors and fleetmates because they've had enough of not getting much of anything.

Cheers
I'm looking to collate ideas and point out areas that I think can be developed rather quickly, and will have have a great impact on the community. Not exhuming our emotions and frustrations can be tough, believe me I know! It does help when you take those out of the equation before you post, as Wishstone just posted earlier.

Most of my time is spent taking care of the 528th community. And in that time I have seen many people leave because of no real end-game besides PVP. We are not a PVP fleet (contrary to popular belief; we are a casual, social gaming community). We could communicate this with our emotions, to little or no avail. Or... we can do all that we are able to, which is communicate possible solutions all in one place.

Will they get done immediately? No, they probably won't get done for weeks, at least. Can we manage our expectations and create solutions to our problems? Yes.

Maybe each fleet could create specific PVP based events to keep their friends and members playing the game we all love... Eventually with this thread and our (positive and contsructive) efforts we will see the results we want. Or find another space-based game (like Star Trek: Fleet Operations) and play that on the side!

We can keep asking, eventually we will receive. Much can be gained, however, in how you ask.

*Cheers*
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