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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-19-2011, 01:55 PM
Snix may be leaving but the PvP hasn't left him. He played in shuttle wars today.
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/y...Win3192011.jpg
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/y...oss3192011.jpg
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/y...oss3192011.jpg

He was BlackThorn.
Him as well as other known to the pvp community played a range of matches from shuttles vs shuttle to T2 ships.

It was awesome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-19-2011, 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Now that Snix has left there is no one left at Cryptic with even a semblance of how PvP works. Snix had a basic understanding of PvP because he had a basic like for it, even went out and did it here and there, but he was no PvPer.

There's no better solution to PvP balance to have someone in charge of that balance that "gets it", just throwing someone into the position who has no or little interest in PvP is only going lead balance mistakes that are obvious to rest us.

So I would like to humbly suggest that you look at the PvP community for filling Snix's spot. Waive the typical "2 years of experience" and other roadblocks, and take into account that many PvPers have over one year of experience with THIS game, and understand it's balance and mechanics better than anyone you could possibly hire.

A few names come to mind for people who would make excellent candidates, not only for their experience and knowledge, but due their diplomacy (aka. to the best of my knowledge they have not made assess of themselves on the forum, which is why I'm not listing myself ) ...

SNIP
I WHOLEHEARTEDLY support hurleybird's idea that the next developer be someone who PvP's. You guys are focusing far too much on his suggestion of people and possible waiving of requirements ... but that's not really the point.

For PvP to ever be something even remotely resembling the awesome fun it could be and we all want it to be, there needs to be someone who understands basic balance points. PvE isn't balanced and nobody cares really, because the real players always win. But, in PvP, balance is THE most important aspect. Someone who rarely PvP's just will not get it.

If Cryptic wants to have a thriving community for STO for a long time, the PvP community is indispensible. We hang on logging in every day with virtually zero new content. We are the primary reason why people continue to play their characters at max level and strive for minor upgrades. We are about as close to FREE REVENUE STREAMS as any mmo will ever get. It really doesn't take much development effort to keep us happy.

BUT, to keep us happy, we only really need a few things. They are: 1) Fun, 2) Balance, 3) Purpose.

Fun is extremely easy to do, and doesn't need many refreshers. If they put in the equivalent of one weekly episode's work into new PvP games/maps every 6 months, we'd be happy. Even the most basic test would have quickly realized that spam isn't fun and crushes people with lesser computers or connections. But alas, I fear no fun pvp check was ever performed.

Balance is simply a matter of testing. I'd suggest giving the option to test new changes on Tribble to a dozen or so loyal PvP'ers before releasing things to Holodeck. Require them to post a journal of concise entries and rate the impact of new ideas. Let them digest it for a week before giving their final thoughts, then read those thoughts and make a balance pass and releasing a second iteration on Tribble. After two player-tested passes (which required zero developer effort and at most a couple hours of time to read the journal entries), make final tweaks before releasing it to Holodeck. We're not looking for nits to pick ... it's the constant release of King Kong imbalance in a land of chimpanzees that upset the community. Tapping a handful of good and honorable players to write these journals should eliminate the King Kong imbalances.

Purpose is the reason for PvP'ing. Testing your skills against other players is the ultimate test, but it requires a goal, whether that be a score (total kills), objective (capture points), or defense (area control), PvP is all about purpose.

Hurleybird is right ... without any PvP'ers amongst the developers to keep these three principles viewed through the PvP lense, our game isn't going to be be done right. Sometimes it feels like Oprah Winfrey is in charge of PvP ... and it has an extremely care-bear feel to it that utterly misses the 3 guiding principles of Fun, Balance and Purpose ... but sure does look pretty.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-19-2011, 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashgrey77 View Post
No way, terrible idea. They are just players. No player should be involved in any way, shape, or form, with the development of the game unless they have met said job requirements, degree, experience, etc. Just because you PVP alot does not a expert on game design make. I also think it would raise some ethical issues if a player or players active in pvp fleets were in charge of pvp design and especially balance . We don't all agree on the way pvp should work in this game to begin with, this would just make it worse.
What he said.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-20-2011, 04:33 AM
You are certainly correct in that whoever is responsible for the game mechanics has to have an interest in PvP and look at how things affect it. And that probably means he has to do PvP as well.

That doesn't mean he should be "one of us",e .g. a regular PvP player. He still needs all the skills required from a software developer and game designer. It's way more important that he's good at that than he's a top PvPer. But he needs an idea - and possibly more than just a basic - on how PvP works.

I also agree with ECarter - balance can be tweaked endlessly. The top PvPers will always adapt and beat the rest. You cannot change that, and you don't need to change that. Skill is not copying a good build, skill is identifying what good builds are and why tand how they work - and repeat this effort when you are faced with changes.

What the PvP community needs is new stuff to do. Actual content in form of PvP maps and game modes, long-term goals like Open PvP Territory Control or even Leaderboards can provide...

If that doesn't happen, we will see more people like Zorena, faithborn or KillingMeSoftly (to just give a few names) leave the game for a game tat provides better long-term incentives. Or at least - new incentives.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-20-2011, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashgrey77 View Post
No way, terrible idea. They are just players. No player should be involved in any way, shape, or form, with the development of the game unless they have met said job requirements, degree, experience, etc. Just because you PVP alot does not a expert on game design make. I also think it would raise some ethical issues if a player or players active in pvp fleets were in charge of pvp design and especially balance . We don't all agree on the way pvp should work in this game to begin with, this would just make it worse.

ditto

/10char
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