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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-21-2011, 09:10 AM
Here we go again... Another plea to change, balance and overhaul STO in order to accommodate the minority "Fight Club for Trekkies" crowd.

Solution - how about PvP'ers themselves get together and agree to force themselves to use or not use equipment, builds, gear and tactics available in game instead of forcing changes to the equipment, builds, gear and tactics on all other users that don't participate in PvP?

A plasma beam boat with plasma torps is perfectly viable and usable in PvE. It's only in PvP that it's not.

A polaron cannon boat with transphasic torps is perfectly viable and usable in PvE. It's only in PVP that it's not.

Usage of all the "cluttering" skills and abilities is perfectly viable and usable in PvE. It's only in PVP that it causes issues.

Did you notice the common issue to all the different weapon usages I mentioned above? Yes, the common denominator where everything is an issue is in "PvP". Remove PvP from the scene and there are no longer any issues or need to overhaul anything. Seriously though, I do fully understand the wants of the "Fight Club for Trekkies" to be able to enjoy playing against another human. But as is often the case, PvP'ers making suggestions to change the game fail to take into account just what those changes mean to PvE'ers.

In PvE, the NPC factions and ships have coded for them modifiers, limiters and buffs to their abilities, ships and gear. If you were to bring plasma gear up in performance in order to encourage the usage of the option for PvP'ers, then you will wind up making the PvE NPC usage of those weapons systems a nightmare for PvE players. The Breen series even on normal mode would probably not be "doable" by casual players because of the Breen abilities being buffed too much.

PvP'ers are on a perpetual quest for the ultimate build using the ultimate ship with the ultimate weapons in order to ultimately PWN their opponents utterly. If all PvP'ers use the ultimate build with the ultimate ship with the ultimate weapons then it boils down to human skill.

Basically, my suggestion would be to change the PvP'ers mindset and have them all agree to use different builds, ships and weapons in their matches so that it's all "balanced" instead of trying to "balance" the game around the PvP'er.

You can call this a rant if you want to, but I did add in a suggestion that would help PvP without hurting PvE while pointing out how changes made to STO to accommodate PvP'ers would wind up making the game less enjoyable for PvE'ers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-21-2011, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyryck
Solution - how about PvP'ers themselves get together and agree to force themselves to use or not use equipment, builds, gear and tactics available in game instead of forcing changes to the equipment, builds, gear and tactics on all other users that don't participate in PvP?
You mean like the ability to create a custom, public PVP queue that anyone could join with a detailed list of parameters? For example, you could select whether you would allow cloaking, mines, certain ship tier, disable certain BO abilities or whatever sort of parameters are generally agreed upon to be good to include in the customization list.

Currently we can create private matches, but being able to create customized public matches would be a nice addition to what is currently available.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-21-2011, 09:41 AM
you don't understand. 60% of our options suck. we want 0% to suck, why is that bad? adjusting the weapons that npcs and players have access to will do very little to pve, no mater what changes are made pve will always be a cake walk on any difficulty, in space at least. there will be no nightmares, the only thing that will happen is that every type of weapon will be good, not 3 out of 6 being good.

if you don't think normal difficulty pve is all but death proof, you really have no frame of reference on what min maxing, perfect build pvp'ers are talking about. im not trying to be mean here, but if you want to understand, start a new character and always be qued up for pvp. if you do it from tier 1, you will learn.

everyone needs to do this! seriously, if you don't please stop posting in threads like these with nonsense like oh here we go the elitist pvpers are trying to ruin the game again. you are wrong, dead wrong. there's should be no sucky options, and there should be no overpowered cheap and exploitative crap left unfixed. and when these things are fixed, pve will remain 99% the same as it was before.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14 ok right
03-21-2011, 09:45 AM
And why dont the PVE community get together and make up your own pretend missions and play them or just keep replaying the same missions over and over...just change the name of end villian...sounds like fun huh. PVP was an advertised feature of the game...we pay for the game and we deserve to get new missions and have our style of play work as well as everyone else's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyryck
Here we go again... Another plea to change, balance and overhaul STO in order to accommodate the minority "Fight Club for Trekkies" crowd.

Solution - how about PvP'ers themselves get together and agree to force themselves to use or not use equipment, builds, gear and tactics available in game instead of forcing changes to the equipment, builds, gear and tactics on all other users that don't participate in PvP?

A plasma beam boat with plasma torps is perfectly viable and usable in PvE. It's only in PvP that it's not.

A polaron cannon boat with transphasic torps is perfectly viable and usable in PvE. It's only in PVP that it's not.

Usage of all the "cluttering" skills and abilities is perfectly viable and usable in PvE. It's only in PVP that it causes issues.

Did you notice the common issue to all the different weapon usages I mentioned above? Yes, the common denominator where everything is an issue is in "PvP". Remove PvP from the scene and there are no longer any issues or need to overhaul anything. Seriously though, I do fully understand the wants of the "Fight Club for Trekkies" to be able to enjoy playing against another human. But as is often the case, PvP'ers making suggestions to change the game fail to take into account just what those changes mean to PvE'ers.

In PvE, the NPC factions and ships have coded for them modifiers, limiters and buffs to their abilities, ships and gear. If you were to bring plasma gear up in performance in order to encourage the usage of the option for PvP'ers, then you will wind up making the PvE NPC usage of those weapons systems a nightmare for PvE players. The Breen series even on normal mode would probably not be "doable" by casual players because of the Breen abilities being buffed too much.

PvP'ers are on a perpetual quest for the ultimate build using the ultimate ship with the ultimate weapons in order to ultimately PWN their opponents utterly. If all PvP'ers use the ultimate build with the ultimate ship with the ultimate weapons then it boils down to human skill.

Basically, my suggestion would be to change the PvP'ers mindset and have them all agree to use different builds, ships and weapons in their matches so that it's all "balanced" instead of trying to "balance" the game around the PvP'er.

You can call this a rant if you want to, but I did add in a suggestion that would help PvP without hurting PvE while pointing out how changes made to STO to accommodate PvP'ers would wind up making the game less enjoyable for PvE'ers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15 Brilliant
03-21-2011, 09:48 AM
This is the most brilliant idea I heard yet to fix PVP!! This is also easily accomplished as it is clear Cryptic does not want to put any substantial time to please PVP players. Great solution hopefully it gets noticed. Maybe add a few of the maps that already exist...not much effort needed there too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
You mean like the ability to create a custom, public PVP queue that anyone could join with a detailed list of parameters? For example, you could select whether you would allow cloaking, mines, certain ship tier, disable certain BO abilities or whatever sort of parameters are generally agreed upon to be good to include in the customization list.

Currently we can create private matches, but being able to create customized public matches would be a nice addition to what is currently available.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-21-2011, 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyryck
Remove PvP from the scene and there are no longer any issues or need to overhaul anything.
Considering PvP is the main endgame option, it deserves a significant level of attention in order to keep subscribers around instead of suspending our accounts months at a time while waiting for new PvE content with AI opponents that are way too easy to defeat. Sorry if I like a challenge playing the game instead of steamrolling over brainless AI opponents.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-21-2011, 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
You mean like the ability to create a custom, public PVP queue that anyone could join with a detailed list of parameters? For example, you could select whether you would allow cloaking, mines, certain ship tier, disable certain BO abilities or whatever sort of parameters are generally agreed upon to be good to include in the customization list.

Currently we can create private matches, but being able to create customized public matches would be a nice addition to what is currently available.
That would be a friggin AWESOME idea to see implemented for the casual and hardcore PvP'er! /signed



As for you other folks that responded to my post, please keep in mind that I am NOT Anti-PvP. And I will post in any topic that I choose to offer my opinion in.

I am all for Cryptic making the game better for everyone including certain changes to accommodate the "Fight Club for Trekkies" crowd. But I draw the line at screwing PvE players over in order for PvP'ers to be "forced" to choose other options than the "ultimate min/max build/ship/gear".

The only way that PvP'ers will EVER find balance in a match is if they all use the same cookie cutter build, ship and gear which leaves the human player as the only difference. Usage of anything other than "the same cookie cutter build, ship and gear" will introduce an imbalance and PvPer's will have to adapt, improvise and overcome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18 Derp?
03-21-2011, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarera
And why dont the PVE community get together and make up your own pretend missions and play them or just keep replaying the same missions over and over...just change the name of end villian...sounds like fun huh. PVP was an advertised feature of the game...we pay for the game and we deserve to get new missions and have our style of play work as well as everyone else's.
Derp that is what the Foundry is for! I occasionally participate in PvP for the sheer lulz of even calling it PvP. Maybe because its the fact I am a retired Eve Online Player... but PvP in this game has always been and currently is a very bad joke. It comes down to spam, spam, and more spam. bear in mind I dont just mean pets, its the lack of actual tactics needed in a match to win other than pressing spacebar or ctrl+spacebar and maybe clicking another target somewhere in between. The reason I retired from Eve was after 5+ years of the same old same old it became an uninteresting timesink.

Star Trek Online has potential for great PvP, just not on its current system. It needs a complete and total overhaul from square one and it needs 0 nerfs / balance / overhauls on the weapon systems.

Step one in Overhaul needs to be some type of Risk vs Reward to PvP. In its current state its just a timesink, make it interesting. Start there... and Boldly go where no PvP has gone before!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-21-2011, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattivo80 View Post
Considering PvP is the main endgame option, it deserves a significant level of attention in order to keep subscribers around instead of suspending our accounts months at a time while waiting for new PvE content with AI opponents that are way too easy to defeat. Sorry if I like a challenge playing the game instead of steamrolling over brainless AI opponents.
PvP may be YOUR "only" "endgame" option and YOU may feel that it deserves "significant" attention, but *I* think there are other options to playing an "open-ended" MMO.

Don't apologize for wanting more of a challenge! But just keep in mind that there are other non-PvPing players playing STO that actually enjoy the "challenge" of "steamrolling" the brainless AI opponents with plasma weapons, polaron weapons, transphasic torps, etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-21-2011, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubx2700 View Post
1. The imbalance of the torpedo lineup
suggestions:
-change the main difference of photons to perhaps disable a subsystem like phasers instead of the higher rate of fire to make them more attractive
I disagree. The Phasers (fed) ability to disable a subsystem is a proc more to show the highly selective targeting capibilities of most SF vessels in general.

Quote:
-another possible proc for photons is that they would have a small chance to permanently disable a weapon slot (like a beam or a turret or torp) or a ship component slot (like a console or the engines or deflector) until the player uses minor, major, or critical components to repair it. (or some new item like damage repair teams) this makes sense since in the shows you would see that torps did enough dmg that they could take systems offline and that they had to send people or reroute stuff to bring it back online. and also because if a ship is at 30% WHY are all of its systems online and functioning? shouldnt some be out of commission?
I still disagree. As this should be an outcome of taking any considerable hull damage, not just the effects of Photon torp damage.

My only suggestions for Photons would be a slightly faster CD rate and the possibility of making them fire 1-3 torps every time they are used (though not Heavies unless THY is in effect).

Quote:
-the chroniton effect is nice and should stay and i dont suggest nerfing quantums
Agreed

Quote:
-plasmas and tris should probably be sped up
Possibly. Plasma needs a stickier duration to its DoT effect, imo. and Transphasic just need a boost in damage output to make them more advantageous to being used.

Quote:
-tri stun shoud stay
Tricobalts is fine.

Quote:
-plasma torp fire proc needs to be increased because it was not adjusted when player hull and shield HP was increased thereby making the effect very weak
I don't know. I've experienced some fairly hefty DoT from plasma torps in the past, so precautions should be taken to not make them hit too hard in the DoT.

Quote:
-transphasics should have both their damage and shield penetration increased to make them noticeable when you are hit by them. currently they do 65% of the base dmg of quantums with the 20% bonus shield penetration perhaps it should be increased to 85% the dmg of a quantum and 50% shield penetration or higher but with increasingly long cool downs the higher the shield penetration.
Agreed, as is they are not a good choice for Torps usage.



Quote:
2. the imbalance of energy weapon procs
-phasers and disruptors remain extremely popular due to the low investment in skill points needed to max them out as well as the phaser disable proc and the disruptor -10%dmg resist proc.
Yes. I switched back to Disruptors because it is easier to spec a KDF for them and still get maximum effectiveness.
Quote:
-tetryon and polaron usage is lower due to their higher xp investment
I soecc'ed out of Tetryons due to them not having a consistant proc. Once the enemies shields are down the damage output was not competitive in comparision to how fast shields can be healed versus the damage of other energy weapons.

Quote:
-plasmas are rarely used due to their higher xp investment and useless fire proc
When heavily specced for, Plasma's can be very deadly due to DoT.

Quote:
suggestions:

-phasers, disruptors, antiprotons should stay the same
-plasmas and tetryons should have their procs increased in dmg amount, plasmas in particular because they are currently the most underused weapon type
-possible alternative or even additional procs for tetryons include that they would have a small chance to destabilize a target ships shield grid and a random shield facing would go down every 2 seconds for 10 seconds or the shields penetration would increase. which makes sense because tetryons are supposed to interfere with energy fields like ship and personal shields and holograms.
-possible alternative or even additional procs for plasmas include that they would have a small chance to decrease hull dmg resistance since the ship is on fire [like disruptors meaning disruptor proc would instead have to be say... an innate +20% crtH similar to the antiprotons +20%crtD]
-polarons should have their proc increased to be more noticeable of a drain. this is because they are particularly not currently effective on eng captains or cruisers who can manage power levels very well. perhaps -50 all power levels instead of -25 or maybe even if it disrupted your power grid instead by making your power levels extremely fluctuate up and down possibly disabling or even overloading a system. another possibility is adding a secondary proc. a small chance to penetrate shields completely like we saw with polaron weapons in DS9. something to balance the xp requirement more because they are the most expensive to spec into along with AP.
All this is good in theory but may lead players to not want to play Tac or Escorts due to the lesser chances of being able to heal such power losses.

3. SPAM

TAB player targeting only.





Quote:
4. Mines
have no ideas what so ever.

Quote:
5. Photonic Fleet
This should be a decoy power , not a bring extra guns to the fight power. imo.

Quote:
6. Photonic Bridge Officer
Needs a better buff to those powers it helkps and possibly the ability to be cycled like some other powers.

Quote:
10. Cannons and Dual Cannons
They've been nerfed once already. What possible changes could be in the works?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
this is what i propose for weapon changes.

Phaser- 5% chance to disable subsystem for 5 seconds. The duration of the proc stacks consecutively. it should be limited to one system at a time though, all other systems get 'emergency dampeners' against the proc for 30 seconds. if your shields are disabled and in that 5 seconds you got hit with the proc to disable engines it wouldn't do any thing. otherwise it would basically be impossible to tank against multiple phaser users. but if you got hit with another shield disable proc, shields would remain disabled for another 5 seconds.

Disruptor- 5% chance for target to take 10% more damage for 5 seconds. The duration of the proc stacks consecutively, but the proc chance goes down 1% every time the proc occurs when the target is already suffering from it.

Plasma- 5% chance to start a plasma fire that deals 50% of the initial weapon damage over 5 seconds. Proc can stack unlimited times. that seems a bit more realistic, and would work well at high levels too.

Tetryon- 5% chance to negate 100 weapon energy for 5 seconds. The duration of the proc stacks consecutively. source- "Bombardment with tetryons can render directed-energy weapons inoperative. Jadzia Dax utilized tetryons to disable the weapons of The Albino's troops on Secarus IV in 2370. (DS9: "Blood Oath")"

Polaron- 5% chance to do 50% more shield bleed
source- ever watch deep space nine?!

Antiproton- 20% critical severity like normal. since every antiproton weapon ive seen is very rare purple, it doesn't seem to need more than that. dual heavy antiproton cannons are available with 70% critical severity!

photon- a 5% chance to add a 1 second cooldown to random bo powers

quantum- fine

Plasma torpedoes- should do photon damage per hit, with a quantum cool down. The plasma fire proc, if it goes off, and the plasma torp impact should cause 20% more total damage than a quantum torp hit.

heavy plasma- much higher evasion, its a small target. depending on the high yield level you use, you should be able to fire 1, 2, or 3 of them.

Transpheric- should have a shield penetration percentage that ranges from 20% to 100%. The penetration percentage should be random.

Cronoton- cooling down as fast as photons would make them interesting.

tricobalt- much higher evasion, its a small target. quantum torp flight speed.
And this, this is really good stuff.
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