Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
03-25-2011, 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyNY View Post
hummmnnn.....

Looks like the reaction to the new TOS pack, just blew that particular preference out of the quadrant...

I'm not disagreeing with your premise..,

I'm just not going to hold my breath based on the whims of other players.
Of course. That's part of the problem. It's part of what I'm trying to get across here. This should be a negotiation.

Cryptic: "Hey check out the awesome new TOS Interior we made!"
Us: "Wow, that is pretty cool, but it's too bad I won't be able to use it because it's not free."
Cryptic: "Well, we can't give it to you for free, how about I give you a discount rate of $15?"
Us: "Ehh... I mean it's just an interior. You can't really do anything with it."
Cryptic: "$10?"
Us: *looks at the door, looks at the TOS pack*
Cryptic: "$5. $5."
Us: "I just don't know. It is really nice and all. Can you come down to $1?"
Cryptic: "Ahh I'll have to check with my boss..."
Us: "We'll wait."
Cyptic: "Ok final offer. Best I can do is $2."
Us: "Ah...well....alright I guess I can do that. But only this one time."

What we have instead is:
Cryptic: "Hey check out this new interior."
Us: "Here's my wallet! Take whatever you want! Just give it to me!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
03-25-2011, 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
The voice you mention was peer-to-peer and didn't use servers.
Sure it did. Somebody had to be a server just to host the game. Either the client acted as both client and server, or you set up a dedicated server and it ran through that. The companies usually had their own free dedicated servers set up as well.

Even if it didn't, I could speak to the other players and they could speak back. You can't do that in STO. I'm not sure there is an MMO that has that capability built in at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Again, these are arguments I use for more fleet actions, PvP maps, open pvp areas, large-scale raids, persistent zones, and territory control to be added - instead of the majority of content being Featured Episodes.

While the ramping up to do more Featured Content is a welcome breath to the game, I hope that the Massive and Multiplayer elements don't get overlooked.
And as you know, I'm always up for supporting those arguments to improve the game, but that's not how it is at the moment.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
03-25-2011, 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotD
And as you know, I'm always up for supporting those arguments to improve the game, but that's not how it is at the moment.
I can at least appreciate that.

The way I see, if you'll indulge me, is if someone wants to get a TOS pack, that means the devs have can add it to their resources for building content. I'm cool with it.

Art assets take more time nowadays - so, to do it well, devs have the following options:
  • Charge for content
  • Charge more per month
  • Charge for fluff

I'm fine with fluff being charged for so long as content can get made with those art assets.

Imagine you have a budget of x many hours for artists for the weekly series, you could either do it poorly made but quickly or take longer and do it right. The third way is making part of that workload a fluffy item people can choose to buy at their leisure and then rest assured that you won't be crammed for time or take a long time to get art out later.

STO had around 50 missions added last year - which is toward the top of the pack (unless you count paid expansions). A good portion of those used small, cosmetic changes and items in the long run.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
03-25-2011, 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotD
Of course. That's part of the problem. It's part of what I'm trying to get across here. This should be a negotiation.

Cryptic: "Hey check out the awesome new TOS Interior we made!"
Us: "Wow, that is pretty cool, but it's too bad I won't be able to use it because it's not free."
Cryptic: "Well, we can't give it to you for free, how about I give you a discount rate of $15?"
Us: "Ehh... I mean it's just an interior. You can't really do anything with it."
Cryptic: "$10?"
Us: *looks at the door, looks at the TOS pack*
Cryptic: "$5. $5."
Us: "I just don't know. It is really nice and all. Can you come down to $1?"
Cryptic: "Ahh I'll have to check with my boss..."
Us: "We'll wait."
Cyptic: "Ok final offer. Best I can do is $2."
Us: "Ah...well....alright I guess I can do that. But only this one time."

What we have instead is:
Cryptic: "Hey check out this new interior."
Us: "Here's my wallet! Take whatever you want! Just give it to me!"
Oh Yeah....

If Only I could get Cryptic to deal with me like the last Dealer I bought a car from....

Some how though, I don't think Cryptic is at the... end-of-the-month/year-time-to-meet-quota point..., yet...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
03-25-2011, 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThetaNine
Ok, I have to say I love TOS (I grew up watching it in the early 1970's). And I appreciate the fact the devs made it so we can relive that environment inside our ships and out with the new TOS bundle pack on the C-Store.

What I'd really like to see is a 2409 C-Store Bundle of NEW material: New Uniforms, New Bridges, New Shuttles, New Weapons that Scale Up with Character Progression!


How about you?
I would kill to actually have stuff released for this era finally.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulif_Davis
THIS is what I'm talking about! More stuff from the proper timeline! Stop the past-crap. People paid for this game KNOWING it was set in the future, so let's stop pandering to them and make them grow up! Give them what they paid for, not what they keep crying about.
This ^
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
03-25-2011, 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
I can at least appreciate that.

The way I see, if you'll indulge me, is if someone wants to get a TOS pack, that means the devs have can add it to their resources for building content. I'm cool with it.

Art assets take more time nowadays - so, to do it well, devs have the following options:
  • Charge for content
  • Charge more per month
  • Charge for fluff

I'm fine with fluff being charged for so long as content can get made with those art assets.

Imagine you have a budget of x many hours for artists for the weekly series, you could either do it poorly made but quickly or take longer and do it right. The third way is making part of that workload a fluffy item people can choose to buy at their leisure and then rest assured that you won't be crammed for time or take a long time to get art out later.
I don't have access to their financials, so there's no way to debate their budgeting practices. They could be ripping us off, they could be taking a huge hit, I just have no way to know.

All I know is that in my experience in the rest of the gaming world, this business model is not used. Even in the MMO world their model appears to be unusual. They are charging like they're F2P (especially now that we have an interior that is a fundamentally different gaming experience from the normal sub model) but they are a subscription MMO.

I'm frankly not sure why they haven't gone F2P. I think it would probably net them a whole bunch of people who wrote this game off at launch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
03-25-2011, 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotD
I don't have access to their financials, so there's no way to debate their budgeting practices. They could be ripping us off, they could be taking a huge hit, I just have no way to know.

All I know is that in my experience in the rest of the gaming world, this business model is not used. Even in the MMO world their model appears to be unusual. They are charging like they're F2P (especially now that we have an interior that is a fundamentally different gaming experience from the normal sub model) but they are a subscription MMO.

I'm frankly not sure why they haven't gone F2P. I think it would probably net them a whole bunch of people who wrote this game off at launch.
Is there a $15 a month game that isn't also loading up on cosmetic item cash shops as well now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
03-25-2011, 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Is there a $15 a month game that isn't also loading up on cosmetic item cash shops as well now?
RIFTS but they're kind of an exception to the trend in a lot of ways.

Anyone want to take a wager at how TOR will afford full-voice acting post-launch on $15/month?
Look at WAR's store.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
03-25-2011, 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
RIFTS but they're kind of an exception to the trend in a lot of ways.

Anyone want to take a wager at how TOR will afford full-voice acting post-launch on $15/month?
Look at WAR's store.
RIFTS is also Brand New On the Market...

Let's see where they are a year from now....

Who knows.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
03-25-2011, 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Anyone want to take a wager at how TOR will afford full-voice acting post-launch on $15/month?
They plan to do it by having lots and lots of people playing the game and keeping them subscribing by delivering a superior experience, I imagine. They've also probably locked in contracts that will keep the cost down.
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