Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-28-2011, 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Sometimes, Borg Cubes seem to send a blueish beam at a target. I have yet to identify it correctly, but I suspect it's actually Tachyon Beam (the SFX would fit).

I am not sure I like the Borg using CPB. It might make sense from a metagaming perspective, but canonically, the Borg didn't have such area effect weapons. Instead, you see the Borg shooting its arsenal at different targets. This would suggest that the Borg need a unique, unusual AI that allows them to do split their attention. Even my facing idea requires that, as currently, all it would achieve is that the Borg would use the powers only if it's curretnly "aggroed" target is in the firing arc.

Changing the AI of the NPCs is something that seems desirable, but is it doable?


They use Plasma weapons, but is that canon?


Doable? For sure it's doable, easy not so much...

All memory alpha indicates is a 'destructive beam and projective weapons', supporting some form of adaptive dmg type.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-28-2011, 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I am not sure I like the Borg using CPB. It might make sense from a metagaming perspective, but canonically, the Borg didn't have such area effect weapons. Instead, you see the Borg shooting its arsenal at different targets. This would suggest that the Borg need a unique, unusual AI that allows them to do split their attention. Even my facing idea requires that, as currently, all it would achieve is that the Borg would use the powers only if it's curretnly "aggroed" target is in the firing arc.
I agree! I didn't actually mean for one shot to effect multiple ships like the Charge Particle Burst we have in the game right now. I was picturing it as projectile firing like turrets (only slower) or torpedoes randomly like BFAW (again, only slower). I'm picturing a flat amount, or maybe even a percentage, of shield drain for each hit. The light show alone would look incredibly cool.

I think they used something like that in TNG while the Enterprise was attempting to escape at warp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Changing the AI of the NPCs is something that seems desirable, but is it doable?
I'm not really sure that it would be for ground. How do you make an enemy NPC that won't engage you unless you engage them? How do you keep your Away Team from screwing everything up? In space I can't imagine it would be all that difficult. If they were loaded up with enough abilities that have a targeting effect like BFAW then they would have to attack randomly depending on how many targets were available anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-28-2011, 06:54 AM
Quote:
How do you make an enemy NPC that won't engage you unless you engage them? How do you keep your Away Team from screwing everything up?
That is already in the game. Remember the mission that gets you the Universal Borg console? Set your BOs to passive and you only have to fight in the final room. (And you have to fight a lot there, but you can pull aggro slowly by scanning hte Undine and only attracting two enemies at a time.)

Quote:
In space I can't imagine it would be all that difficult. If they were loaded up with enough abilities that have a targeting effect like BFAW then they would have to attack randomly depending on how many targets were available anyway.
I am not sure that is so easy. It seems NPCs can hold aggro only for one target at a time. So I figure it would be a significant improvement to the AI that we can find both in Champions Online and Startrek Online.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-28-2011, 07:19 AM
Hmmm, well how does hate control work now? I know that in Deep Space Encounters, for example, if I open up on the Borg who are already engaged but I happen to have more burst, the Borg will change their focus from the first person to me.

What if all of their offensive powers were retooled so that they all had the BFAW targeting effect? Beams, Turrets, Torpedoes, Charge Particle Burst Projectiles, all just fire randomly. If there are more targets that would spread out these weapons but if there was one it would really suffer, lol. Could that achieve the desired effect of forcing them to engage multiple contacts, even if they are targeting one with their primary hate?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-28-2011, 09:51 AM
only if the undine can 1 shot them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-28-2011, 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
They use Plasma weapons, but is that canon?
The weapons Borg use has always been an odd mix.
In "Q Who" they used their tractor (green) beam in combination with what Worf called "a type of laser beam"

http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/...tting_beam.jpg

It was reused in "Best of Both Worlds" (along with the blue tractor) where Worf called it a "Cutting Beam" even though this might point to the function not the physics behind it.

We also know this weapon can actually blow big holes in ships like in the DS9 pilot.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...e_attacked.jpg

During the "charge of the light brigade" AKA when the three small ships of the Mars defense Perimeter charge the Borg cube, it fires three short green pulses that look very much like those from a BoP disruptor cannon.

In First Contact, the cube uses beams that look simply like tractors beams that are more focused to do damage (ironically a "heavy graviton beam" was discussed in "Best of Both worlds" as an anti-borg weapon),

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...fiant_Borg.jpg

short green pulses and some kind of blue wide-beam

I could not find screenshots for those, so here a youtube link to the combat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZbCNexctc

you can see the blue beam I mentioned at 0:54 when the Enterprise distracts the cube from the Defiant and the pulse at 1:45 when the cube first shoots down a Saber and then at a Steamrunner.

In Voyager the Borg ended up with the Stardard Alien of the week beams and torps,

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2...2620h36m40.png

that we also see on the Klingons on "Enterprise" (along with the same sound effects.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...C_augments.jpg

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...C_Augments.jpg

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._disruptor.jpg


The only indication what exactly the Borg might be using comes from "Enterprise" where Reed calls the weapons the Borg in "Regeneration" use as "Proton Burst".

So long story short, we have several different directions:
Advanced Lasers, Advanced Disruptors, Advanced Graviton/Tractor Weapons, Advanced Proton guns
but none of them points towards Plasma.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-28-2011, 10:39 AM
Someone please install a vbulletin posrep plugin so I can posrep mister_dee for his research?

Thanks for digging this all up!

I think it wouldn't hurt if the Borg would use something else then Plasma weapons. At lower tiers, we already have the Romulans use Plasma Torps, and at the same tier, the Undine also seem fond off Plasma.

While the heavy plasma torpedo works wonderful with the shield neutralizer, it doesn't seem to fit canon..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-28-2011, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
How do you make an enemy NPC that won't engage you unless you engage them? How do you keep your Away Team from screwing everything up?
The Borg could be flagged as 'Friendly' but attackable. They ignore you until you take hostile action. Kind of like the way the derelict ships or asteroids (Fistrium?) appear in KDF explore missions (at first they con white but when you attack them they con as an enemy).

I am wholeheartedly in support of this thread.


Z
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-28-2011, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Someone please install a vbulletin posrep plugin so I can posrep mister_dee for his research?

Thanks for digging this all up!
You're welcome.
As you can see I "stole" most of those pics from Mem Alpha, primarily since I currently don't have access to my actual harddrive with most of my screenshots.
Otherwise I would've have made some of the Mars Defense debacle, I must always chuckle when I see those three ships charge the Cube.

I just put what I found in the proper order.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I think it wouldn't hurt if the Borg would use something else then Plasma weapons. At lower tiers, we already have the Romulans use Plasma Torps, and at the same tier, the Undine also seem fond off Plasma.

While the heavy plasma torpedo works wonderful with the shield neutralizer, it doesn't seem to fit canon..
I agree, something unique for them would be nice.
Wasn't "Proton Damage" added as a damage-type, even though its currently not in use?
Meaning that device you get in the Devidian Series has a disadvantage than is no disadvantage at all?
Assuming the engine can stomach it, the Tractor-like beams from First Contact could be used instead of Plasma Beams.
Personally I also think the weapons in First Contact looked more intimidating than "Green Lightning"

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...Sector_001.jpg

Of course if the Borg got rid of their Plasma Torpedoes, we could not simply give them torpedoes that have Proton-Damage, that would be too... Star Warsish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
While the heavy plasma torpedo works wonderful with the shield neutralizer, it doesn't seem to fit canon..
The Heavy Plasma could also be replaced with another Borg-specific weapon from the show, the "Magnetometric guided charge", it did damage to the Enterprise, but god knows how it works....or what it looks like exactly.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Magneto..._guided_charge
Here at counter 36:50
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-29-2011, 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I think it wouldn't hurt if the Borg would use something else then Plasma weapons. At lower tiers, we already have the Romulans use Plasma Torps, and at the same tier, the Undine also seem fond off Plasma.
I beleive the only Plasma thing the Undine use are the torps. If I remember right (which I never do), I saw in my combat log that their beams were Anti-proton.

Again....I'm prolly wrong....
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