Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
And for the love of Darwin and all things science (this is a Star Trek forum after all) please no trolls. If you want to troll, please go to a WoW forum.

Creative Issues
The first thing anyone who knows anything about Star Trek will notice when playing Star Trek Online, regarding both the Federation and the Klingon factions is that the quality of writing is very poor. It feels like a world famous 1960s pulp writer trying to claim fame through something which he can not grasp.
The Vulcans show little signs of logic, and what logic they do show is flawed. Any serious critical analysis of both circumstance and motive can provide a more solid foundation of logic then what is shown for the Vulcans.

The Humans show little variation in personality and attitude as well, though the Ferengi are written perfectly. Though considering Cryptic has shown nothing but an interest in making money from the game, this does not surprise me.

There are numerous episodes and movies that show off both the Breen and the Romulans. One of the movies (Star Trek: Nemesis) also shows the Remans. Now I do applaud Cryptic’s attempt at making a MODERN massively multiplayer online game by including voice acting, but most of the actors are very poor quality, and no effort was made to make them sound more like their races, either in hiring actors that can pull off an appropriate accent (in the case of the Romulans) or in voice modification via software (in the case of the Remans).

With regard to the Romulans, they are, as a people, less confrontational then they are shown in the game. The history Cryptic made up (and you figured they would have hired a Star Trek writer or two to do so, but hey, they don’t care about us) regarding Star Trek is set after the events of the latest Star Trek movie (I may have misspoken. The quality of Cryptic writing is as good as the writing for the latest Star Trek movie), in which the Romulan star exploded, shattering the empire. This caused numerous splinter factions, and while some might be more aggressive the species as a whole would not change this attitude. If anything, the shattering of the empire and the subsequent conflict and splinter groups within the empire would make them more deceptive and anti-confrontational except in matters where there is no other choice.

The Remans, also, have similar problems. The Remans shown in the game show no signs of a history under the lash of a Romulan guard in the dilithium mines. Furthermore it was already established, and is a very logical and obvious circumstance considering that sort of society for hundreds, if not thousands, of years, that ALL Remans are oppressed, ALL Remans come from a harsh, unforgiving culture as slaves treated worse than anything faced on Earth in our history. As such there are no ‘civilian’ Remans. All Remans fight. And they do not care about honour or loyalty except to their own. They will stab you in the face if they feel you have betrayed them, and do not give their trust out easily.

Cryptic writers have *******ised the Breen just as much. Romulans have a saying: Never turn your back on a Breen. The reason is that the Breen have little care for honour or fair play. They only care about achieving their ends, and if that means putting a knife into your back, then they will. They will take prisoners and slaves, and treat them harshly. They have no care for bragging, because they are superior to the rest of us, and thus we are not worth their time talking to except in the most direct way, and only when the need arises. They DO NOT Brag like a Nausicaan.

Though Nausicaan does now bring me to the Klingon empire faction. Where is the Honour? Where is the fear of being amongst the dishonoured dead? Where is the happiness when a fellow Klingon dies in glorious combat? Where is the blood wine? The Klingon Opera and and the songs? And WHY THE HELL do Klingons seem to fear death?

It seems the problem is that not only do the writers appear to have no experience with science fiction in general, but they have no care for, love for, or interest in Star Trek. If they did then they would, at the very least, get their information from Memory Alpha, and not pull it out their arses.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-27-2011, 03:23 AM
Technical Issues
The technical issues are vast, but the most prominent ones will be listed.
I believe the most well known issues are the oversized interior, the lack of interest in serious development by not implementing limitations for both characters and AI to prevent such unrealistic and plainly stupid actions such as super jump (where you are shooting the AI from a high wall and the AI jumps 4 stories to start shooting you), and the lack of freeform movement (such as angled forward travel and perfectly vertical ascent and descent).

In addition to these, there is a lack of technologically appropriate divisions between the factions , nor do the starships feel like starships. Customisation is limited, an unappealing, with there being no real difference between item rarities for anything other than consoles.

We also have sensors limited to telling what a ship is at further then 15-20km, and weapons that only work within 10km. Transporters and short range scanners that have a range of less than 5km, except when beaming to the surface of a planet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-27-2011, 03:25 AM
Fixes
Well, the fixes for creative issues are easy. Hire new writers, or fire those that refuse to watch all of Star Trek. Between all 5 series and the movies there is about 700 episodes/movies, or there abouts. Assuming the writers are fulltime writers and they don’t work on other things, amongst the group they could collective watch everything within ¼ of a year. Half a year if they take their time. The community, as a whole, would benefit significantly more from writers that know Star Trek then from the hack writers we have right now. Failing this they could simply read through ALL the articles on Memory Alpha, take notes where needed.

Now the technical issues would be more complex to fix, but still not that difficult. To correct the AI issues, they simply put a hard coded limit on PCs and NPCs so that they can jump no higher than HALF the current PC jump height, but with the Catians jump height remaining as it is. This also enables the interiors to be shrunk to a size appropriate for real humans, instead of interiors designed for giants. Though the consoles on the walls will need to be repositioned to still remain appropriately placed.

The movement is also easy to fix. The developers know how to do it, they just have said they won’t. Something about the game not being based on Star Trek but on WWII aircraft movements.
Now with regards to the factions being separated, this will be more difficult to implement a fix, but Im sure everyone (except the lazy ass developers) will agree would be a FAR better system.

Federation Ships
All ships start with 20,000 hull points. Each rank up this amount increases by 5,000 hull points. This means that by the final tier there is a total of 45,000 hull points as a base.

Cruiser
Cruiser ships should represent large amounts of armaments and a tough hull that can take a beating, just as they do now. These ships also have the largest amounts of power output.
Starting at the second tier there is a 10% bonus to hull points, and a 10% reduction in shield points, and this amount increases by 10% at each tier beyond Tier 2. This means by the final tier ship there is a total of 50% more hull and 50% less shielding.
Furthermore, there is a 10% per tier, starting tier 2, bonus to power output (see below).

Science
Science vessels are supposed to represent ships that excel in battlefield control. Both enhancing their own ship, or their allies, and debilitating the enemies. They don’t produce as much energy as Cruiser class vessels do, but they produce more than escort vessels do. They, also, don’t have the same armaments that Cruisers do, nor do they do as much damage as an escort.
Starting at second tier, just like cruisers, they receive a 10% bonus to shield points, and a 10% reduction in hull points. This represents the superior shields of a science vessel. Science vessels also gain a 2.5% boost to power per tier, starting at tier 2. This is a total of 12.5% additional power at the final tier currently available.

Escort
Escort vessels are small, with average shields and hull, reduced power output, but significantly more powerful weapons. They are also very fast and agile.
Escorts receive a 10% bonus to both speed and damage, and this bonus increases at every tier, with the bonus starting at the second tier. They also have a flat 10% reduced power output.

Carrier
The federation carrier is a Tier 6 vessel.
It has the lowest number of weapons of any federation ship, but can launch federation fighters. It can launch a squadron of delta flyers or a squadron of maintenance vessels. It has two hangers. It also receives a 25% bonus to shield strength and and a 15% bonus to power output.

Klingon Ships
All ships start with 10,000 hull points. Each rank above the first increases this amount by 4,000 hull points. At tier 6 this is a total amount of 30,000 hull points.

Cruiser
Klingon cruisers are sturdy vessels, but just like all klingon ships, they are cheap, and do not have the same level of defences as federation ships do. But, they do fire faster than federation ships.
Starting at the second tier, they gain a 10% bonus to firing speed, and a 5% increase in hull points, but receive a 10% reduction in shielding.

Science
Klingon science vessels are rare, but the ones that do exist provide a 5% bonus in shielding, 5% increase in fire rate, and a 5% in power output.

Escort
Klingon escorts are fast, manueverable, and feared even by federation cruisers.
Starting at the second tier, they gain a 10% bonus to firing speed, and a 2.5% bonus to damage output. They are also the only ships capable of mounting Dual Heavy Cannons and Heavy Turrets.

Carrier
Klingon carriers are the most feared ship, next to the Romulan Warbird and the Borg Cubes.
They have lower number of weapons then other vessels, but carry 4 hangers. Unlike other klingon vessels, however, they have very thick, sturdy hulls. They have a 75% bonus in hull points, and a 25% bonus to shield output, but they have a 50% reduction in shield recharge and a 20% reduction in power ouput.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-27-2011, 03:27 AM
Ship Fittings
This section will list the fittings for ships. For the sake of reducing the overall length, same fittings will be used for both klingon and federation. Modify as needed for klingons.

Tier 1
Fore Weapons: 2
Aft Weapons: 1
Consoles: 1 Engineering; 1 Science; 1 Tactical.
Ensign Station: All

Tier 2
Cruiser
Fore Weapons: 2
Aft Weapons: 2
Consoles: 2 Engineering; 1 Science; 1 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Tactical, Science, Engineering
Lieutenant Station: Engineering

Science
Fore Weapons: 2
Aft Weapons: 2
Consoles: 1 Engineering; 2 Science; 1 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Tactical, Science, Engineering
Lieutenant Station: Science

Escort
Fore Weapons: 3
Aft Weapons: 1
Consoles: 1 Engineering; 1 Science; 2 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Tactical, Science, Engineering
Lieutenant Station: Tactical

Tier 3
Cruiser
Fore Weapons: 3
Aft Weapons: 3
Consoles: 3 Engineering; 1 Science; 1 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Engineering
Lieutenant Station: Tactical, Science
Lieutenant Commander: Engineering

Science
Fore Weapons: 3
Aft Weapons: 2
Consoles: 1 Engineering; 3 Science; 1 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Science
Lieutenant Station: Tactical, Engineering
Lieutenant Commander: Science

Escort
Fore Weapons: 4
Aft Weapons: 2
Consoles: 1 Engineering; 1 Science; 3 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Tactical
Lieutenant Station: Engineering, Science
Lieutenant Commander: Tactical

Tier 4
Cruiser
Fore Weapons: 4
Aft Weapons: 4
Consoles: 3 Engineering; 2 Science; 2 Tactical.
Lieutenant Station: Engineering, Science, Tactical
Commander Station: Engineering

Science
Fore Weapons: 3
Aft Weapons:3
Consoles: 2 Engineering; 3 Science; 2 Tactical.
Lieutenant Station: Engineering, Science, Tactical
Commander Station: Science

Escort
Fore Weapons: 5
Aft Weapons: 2
Consoles: 2 Engineering; 2 Science; 3 Tactical.
Lieutenant Station: Engineering, Science, Tactical
Commander Station: Tactical

Tier 5
Cruiser
Fore Weapons: 5
Aft Weapons: 5
Consoles: 4 Engineering; 2/3 Science; 2/3 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Tactical/Science
Lieutenant Station: Tactical, Science
Lieutenant Commander: Engineering
Commander Station: Engineering

Science
Fore Weapons: 4
Aft Weapons: 4
Consoles: 2/3 Engineering; 4 Science; 2/3 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Tactical/Engineering
Lieutenant Station: Tactical, Engineering
Lieutenant Commander: Science
Commander Station: Science

Escort
Fore Weapons: 6
Aft Weapons: 3
Consoles: 2/3 Engineering; 2/3 Science; 4 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Engineering/Science
Lieutenant Station: Engineering, Science
Lieutenant Commander: Tactical
Commander Station: Tactical

Tier 6
Cruiser
Fore Weapons: 6
Aft Weapons: 6
Consoles: 4 Engineering; 2 Science; 2 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Engineering
Lieutenant Station: Tactical, Science
Lieutenant Commander: Engineering
Commander Station: Engineering

Science
Fore Weapons: 5
Aft Weapons: 5
Consoles: 2 Engineering; 4 Science; 2 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Science
Lieutenant Station: Engineering, Tactical
Lieutenant Commander: Science
Commander Station: Science

Escort
Fore Weapons: 7
Aft Weapons: 3
Consoles: 2 Engineering; 2 Science; 4 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Tactical
Lieutenant Station: Engineering, Science
Lieutenant Commander: Tactical
Commander Station: Tactical

Carrier
Fore Weapons: 3
Aft Weapons: 3
Consoles: 3 Engineering; 3 Science; 3 Tactical.
Ensign Station: Universal
Lieutenant Station: Dual Universal
Lieutenant Commander: Universal
Commander Station: Universal
Hanger Bays: 2/4
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-27-2011, 03:29 AM
Additional Modules
In addition to weapons and consoles, the following changes are also made to modules.

There is no longer a single slot for shield, there is now 2 slots: Shield Generator and Shield Type. The generator provides a normalised amount of shield points, as well as a regeneration rate, modified by skills, ship type, rank, etc. The shield type provides determines if its a covariant shield, regenerative shield, etc. Each type of shield provides different modifiers for different aspects of the shield.

Impulse engines are also removed, replaced with: Warp core, impulse manifold. The impulse manifold determines sub-warp speed, turn rate, full impulse speed, etc. Warp core provides a power output level. This replaces the difficult to understand power distribution system currently in place.

The power settings will be replaced with a power distribution system. You can allocate up to 100% of the ships total output power to shield generators, impulse engines, or weapons. Unlike the current system, if you set a power output source to a particular setting, it doesn’t force the others to a set value. The reason for this is the new warp core module.

Firing weapons, or using abilities that require auxiliary power, will drain energy from the warp core, which ‘regenerates’ at a set amount per time scale. Designating a set amount of power for a particular subsystem auto-allocates that amount of the total output for that system. 50% allocation means shields regenerate at their normal rate, and weapons deal normal damage. 100% allocation means that weapons fire at 25% greater fire rate, or shields will regenerate 50% faster. Though it also means that there is no energy available for any other system.

This modification provides greater flexibility and customizability. The option for a ‘retrofit’ vessel is also easier, allowing your promotional token to be used to buy a lesser vessel but with stats comparable to higher level vessel. I, for one, would love this option as I like the hope class vessel the most out of all the science vessels.

Side Note
Klingon vessels, under this scheme, need to be faster, with a higher turn rate.


UPDATE: Latest Patch
Not going to go into it, but the latest patch notes, while showing some promising light (like making the transporter more in line with the IP) just goes to reinforce what I have said. The devs are nothing but greedy, hungry ferengi milking star trek for all they can before it folds, and ruining any chance of ever having a great Star Trek mmo.

This is the last section. This would bring the ships closer to how they were in Starfleet Command III, which frankly, was a great representation of Star Trek ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-27-2011, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_collective View Post
Technical Issues
The technical issues are vast, but the most prominent ones will be listed.
I believe the most well known issues are the oversized interior, the lack of interest in serious development by not implementing limitations for both characters and AI to prevent such unrealistic and plainly stupid actions such as super jump (where you are shooting the AI from a high wall and the AI jumps 4 stories to start shooting you), and the lack of freeform movement (such as angled forward travel and perfectly vertical ascent and descent).

In addition to these, there is a lack of technologically appropriate divisions between the factions , nor do the starships feel like starships. Customisation is limited, an unappealing, with there being no real difference between item rarities for anything other than consoles.

We also have sensors limited to telling what a ship is at further then 15-20km, and weapons that only work within 10km. Transporters and short range scanners that have a range of less than 5km, except when beaming to the surface of a planet.
aside from some of the harshness in some of the comments, i do agree with the more constructive critiques of this thread: some that stick out for me are these:

race differentials

tactical restrictions:
- boosting weapons range. beam focus intensity. photon topredoes were said to be able to be adjusted to: "knock the com array off a shuttlepod without scratching the hull, or put a three-kilometer crater into an asteroid."

-same with sensors.. boosting sensitivity to pick up anomalies and scan for particular life forms and such. or you can boost range
quid pro quo on this one.. range for power.. power for range... so programming sensitivity/intensity should compromise range. boosting range should compromise power

-jumping and movement restrictions for ground ..

-space is not that bad (although i would love some sort of pursuit course, barrel roll, etc. in the form of attack and defensive patterns-the ones we have now are just power and defensive boosts, not actual tactical movements evasive maneuvers pattern delta rocks the ship from side to side in order to make it difficult to target and hit, for example.-ds9 "shattered mirror"

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=9354

i dont agree to how you have science ships .. i think they should be the versatile ships, they can be outfitted to either utilize a lot of power for big scientific stuff: like super long range sensors, enhanced warp cores, enhanced scientific equipment, such as poloron emitters, gravitation emitters and sensors. these powers can be used to hybridize weapons (maybe to even distribute to fleet members. like a merged disruptor phaser has the qualities of both, but runs the risk of burning out or frying the weapons systems of non science vessels), enhance speed, provide shielding to special circumstances -like spacial anomalies. the ship can detect, utilize and in some cases, fabricate environmental conditions.
or they can be outfitted to, instead of boost power, provide ground support in various ways

cruisers are the power-defense and versatility, escorts are speed power-offense and accuracy, science is support/versatility and utility.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-27-2011, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_collective View Post
Additional Modules
In addition to weapons and consoles, the following changes are also made to modules.

There is no longer a single slot for shield, there is now 2 slots: Shield Generator and Shield Type. The generator provides a normalised amount of shield points, as well as a regeneration rate, modified by skills, ship type, rank, etc. The shield type provides determines if its a covariant shield, regenerative shield, etc. Each type of shield provides different modifiers for different aspects of the shield.

Impulse engines are also removed, replaced with: Warp core, impulse manifold. The impulse manifold determines sub-warp speed, turn rate, full impulse speed, etc. Warp core provides a power output level. This replaces the difficult to understand power distribution system currently in place.

The power settings will be replaced with a power distribution system. You can allocate up to 100% of the ships total output power to shield generators, impulse engines, or weapons. Unlike the current system, if you set a power output source to a particular setting, it doesn’t force the others to a set value. The reason for this is the new warp core module.

Firing weapons, or using abilities that require auxiliary power, will drain energy from the warp core, which ‘regenerates’ at a set amount per time scale. Designating a set amount of power for a particular subsystem auto-allocates that amount of the total output for that system. 50% allocation means shields regenerate at their normal rate, and weapons deal normal damage. 100% allocation means that weapons fire at 25% greater fire rate, or shields will regenerate 50% faster. Though it also means that there is no energy available for any other system.

This modification provides greater flexibility and customizability. The option for a ‘retrofit’ vessel is also easier, allowing your promotional token to be used to buy a lesser vessel but with stats comparable to higher level vessel. I, for one, would love this option as I like the hope class vessel the most out of all the science vessels.

Side Note
Klingon vessels, under this scheme, need to be faster, with a higher turn rate.


UPDATE: Latest Patch
Not going to go into it, but the latest patch notes, while showing some promising light (like making the transporter more in line with the IP) just goes to reinforce what I have said. The devs are nothing but greedy, hungry ferengi milking star trek for all they can before it folds, and ruining any chance of ever having a great Star Trek mmo.

This is the last section. This would bring the ships closer to how they were in Starfleet Command III, which frankly, was a great representation of Star Trek ships.
i really love the power output ideas a lot. seems much more in line with trek, and much cleaner and straight forward.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-27-2011, 03:23 PM
I agree with a good amount of it, there is some I do not like.

However, I appreciate the time and thought put into it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-27-2011, 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtakuboyT View Post
I agree with a good amount of it, there is some I do not like.

However, I appreciate the time and thought put into it.
Thanks Otakuboy. Makes me wonder why the devs didnt put a bit more time into gameplay mechanics. As far as my harshness towards the writers and the development team, the reasons should be obvious. They made minimal modifications to their champions engine, and didnt even bother getting real science fiction writers. Science fantasy perhaps, but not science fiction (star wars is considered science fantasy)

NOTE: I appologise for skiping over the short weapons ranges and scanner ranges. All I can say is EVE. Weapons ranges between 5-10km and 300km depending on your ship, skills, and loadouts, with the ability to target ships varying by the same. Not expecting a clone, but the engine is older the champions engine, but they upgraded where needed. Should be easy enough to implement a 'to scale' modification to the engine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-27-2011, 08:54 PM
This thread is being closed due to a high volume of content the violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GMMeeko
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