Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 In defense of the C-Store.
03-28-2011, 09:13 AM
I have recently been seeing an increasing number of people expressing their distaste for the C-Store. To which I have to say this.

The monthly fee is $14.99US which pretty much is the same as MMOs have been for the last 10 years.

IF MMO subscriptions were to stay inline with inflation over the last ten years we would be looking at about $18.74......so let's say $18.99. How if an MMO was to come out with a monthly fee like that I doubt many would take up that offer. I bet dollar to donuts (mmmmm.....donuts) that you would see:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0Someguy5429
OMG why wood I payy that *insert established MMO here* iz olny 15 a menth
I mean people, it's not as bad as some FTP I've played. Champions Online's FTP option is a nice way of doing things while allowing a standard unnerfed monthly option. If the same architecture was copied over if done the same way I would not mind, if the stipend was added in I would be over the moon.

Most P2P MMOs are understandably facing hard times, competition from other MMOs, F2P MMOs, and the lackluster economy.

Do I think, STO needs some changes, yes. Anyone who has read any of my posts know I have a large wishlist. However the C-Store isn't really one of them. As compared to some MMOs C-Store really isn't need to be really good in this game. Many of the C-Store stuff is cosmetic or niceties.

I mean you can max out and be killer without the C-Store or even really grinding (until VA).

Thank You.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-28-2011, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtakuboyT View Post
I have recently been seeing an increasing number of people expressing their distaste for the C-Store. To which I have to say this.

The monthly fee is $14.99US which pretty much is the same as MMOs have been for the last 10 years.

IF MMO subscriptions were to stay inline with inflation over the last ten years we would be looking at about $18.74......so let's say $18.99.
While your math is semi accurate, the simple fact is that the cost of server farm hosting has dropped dramatically in the same amount of time.

Not to mention cost of hardware has dropped and performance has increased, and that's BEFORE you take Virtualization into account.

If the companies making MMO's really thought that 14.99 was not enough to support the game and further development, do you HONESTLY think they would not have raised the cost?

Even F2P shops know that its ridiculous, they can develop, produce/market and ship a game that cost nothing and make profit off 2 dollar items in their version of micro-transaction stores.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-28-2011, 09:31 AM
Just one thing: Perception is reality.

If people feel too much love is being given to the c-store, they will leave. The facts are not in question. The perception is.

I think Cryptic would have been smart not to over advertise the TOS bundle with a hefty price tag. This only served to fuel negative perception to their use of the c-store.

We have seen a lot of good changes and quality stuff done since the beginning of the year. However, in the past month alone... after the Featured Series ended and nothing else was on scheduled until season 4 (except delta flyer crafting daily and hopefully the foundry wil be released on holodeck) the c-store gets the following treatment-

- A mass email
- Front page status on STO website
- Blown up ad on the STO launcher
- An assortment of sneak pics and videos concerning TOS interiros and c-store stuff to buy

It is easy to forget what good has been done when something else you don't like keeps getting thrown into your face.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-28-2011, 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joebobkill View Post
Just one thing: Perception is reality.

If people feel too much love is being given to the c-store, they will leave. The facts are not in question. The perception is.

I think Cryptic would have been smart not to over advertise the TOS bundle with a hefty price tag. This only served to fuel negative perception to their use of the c-store.

We have seen a lot of good changes and quality stuff done since the beginning of the year. However, in the past month alone... after the Featured Series ended and nothing else was on scheduled until season 4 (except delta flyer crafting daily and hopefully the foundry wil be released on holodeck) the c-store gets the following treatment-

- A mass email
- Front page status on STO website
- Blown up ad on the STO launcher
- An assortment of sneak pics and videos concerning TOS interiros and c-store stuff to buy

It is easy to forget what good has been done when something else you don't like keeps getting thrown into your face.
This man speaks the truth!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-28-2011, 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentTyler View Post
While your math is semi accurate, the simple fact is that the cost of server farm hosting has dropped dramatically in the same amount of time.

Not to mention cost of hardware has dropped and performance has increased, and that's BEFORE you take Virtualization into account.
And what about labor costs? Licensing fees? Cost of electricity?

Please come back when you have the whole picture, not a small portion of what goes into producing/maintaing a MMO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-28-2011, 09:46 AM
I supported the C-store until they abused it and went back on the assurances they gave regarding where the lines would be drawn. Even now that they've (mostly, but not completely) addressed that I can still bring myself only to grudgingly accept it because that dishonesty makes me wary of every future move.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-28-2011, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joebobkill View Post
Just one thing: Perception is reality.

If people feel too much love is being given to the c-store, they will leave. The facts are not in question. The perception is.
Some people are just going to complain no matter what Cryptic does.

Quote:
I think Cryptic would have been smart not to over advertise the TOS bundle with a hefty price tag. This only served to fuel negative perception to their use of the c-store.
Heaven forbid a business do any advertising!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-28-2011, 09:55 AM
I quit supporting the c-store when they put a huge price tags on ships that weren't really better than the free ones. Then they made the ship and bridge officer slots service for individual characters. I made the mistake of buying four races from c-store. They have limited trait polls and you don't really need anything in there. So just save your money and don't use it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-28-2011, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior View Post
And what about labor costs? Licensing fees? Cost of electricity?

Please come back when you have the whole picture, not a small portion of what goes into producing/maintaing a MMO.
See the first post that mentions the $18.99 price that... two of those things (labor and electricity) are covered by this number (the consumer price index - a rise in 'how much things cost' which shouldn't be that much out of balance with the 'cost of living' - or how much it costs to hire someone and give them the same standard of living. ie: salary a developer).

Even with that, you would think the cost of hiring developers right now is going down (or staying at the same figure) because of the economy, and because the number of people out there familiar with MMO and network coding has increased.

So, either someone is getting a very fat cheque (licensing fees and/or venture capitalists and/or bailing out Atari), or Cryptic is being ripped off by whoever provides their services (either server costs or development costs).

Think about the numbers a bit more. Lets assume “well over 100K subscribers” at $15 dollars a month (a number quoted by Jack Emmert in November. See http://www.onlinemassivelymultiplaye...0-subscribers/).

That's 1.5 million a month not including the c-store.

Now, I work on a scientific server-client project which includes hosting and development, and 1.5 million is maybe close to what we spend a year. Granted, we have a small team of 14 people not including administration (not sure what Cryptic's numbers are but they seem to have a small development team as well). Its also not including the money they bring in from Champions (it seems fair to include that comment somewhere in here, since much of the 'base coding' is shared between these two projects).

Now lets add the mysterious N-factor of the c-store, which is probably bringing in a good sum of money as well. I won't guestimate on those numbers, but I'm sure its not insignificant considering the prices and number of people in game with c-store items.

So where does the money go?

My guess is its being used to develop Neverwinter Nights, then some royalties, and the Atari bailout. Whatever is left goes to Orion slave girls and luxury star cruisers.

-- Z
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-28-2011, 10:46 AM
^^^^

Neverwinter Nights- The code at least, is the reason for such a long delay for season 4 and everything else. I can see why Cryptic in the meantime focuses on foundry (free content by paying users) and C-store (Extra cash flow) for now.

However, they run the risk of alienating their fan base if perception turns negative. Only time will tell.
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