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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-30-2011, 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
Simple solution: Return it to what it was a week ago before the patch. It was fine. The new FAW is broken.
This is indeed the easiest solution. And it is not going to happen. Do you remember the broken queues? Going back to the old queues would have been the easiest solution. Easy solutions are not going to happen. Something along the lines of a dramatically buffed dispersal pattern to absorb all the FAW with mines feels more like the Cryptic approach to "balance".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
The Cooldown and Global Cooldown of the skill allow the use of 2 BFAW for about 89 % uptime, ther eis only a 5 second window where it's down.
89%? Two copies give FAW 15 out of 20 seconds, which is 75%. Not that this makes the new FAW any less broken.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-30-2011, 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
Simple solution: Return it to what it was a week ago before the patch. It was fine. The new FAW is broken.
Bingo.

The old Faw was good at doing what it did... some may have been upset it wasn't the broken IWIN it was, but so what.

The real fix would have been to
1) remove scorpions
2) Fix Tractor Mines (they did)
3) change mines in general, the fact that they have basicly admitted their servers have issues with some of the insane mine spam games should tell them it needs fixed.
4) change pets to be effected by sci (even if some of the sci is annoying as well)
5) fix broken pet ai in general (for the few classes / ships that logicaly will keep their spam)

Instead they applied a quick fix, which just makes more issues of course. (Golf Clap)

CRYPTIC please fix the real issues and then undo the breaking of skills that had no issues.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-30-2011, 09:09 AM
Isn't this our fault? There was so much complaint about the "spam" this was an obvious choice to balance things a bit. In PvE, its nice to be able to clear out mines/fighters/shuttles quickly now. In PvP, it spreads out your damage a wee bit more. In STFs, it makes you a big target (so not so good there). Depending on the build, it can increase your damage, but at a cost for points in other areas and power drain. Yes you can run two BFAWs, but why? You just end up losing abilities that could help you more in the long run. Personally I'm on the fence on this one. The PvPer in my says "boo," but the PvEer in me says "yay."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-30-2011, 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
The old Faw was good at doing what it did... some may have been upset it wasn't the broken IWIN it was, but so what.
The problem with the old FAW is that it wasn't quite good enough to devote one of 2 or 3 tactical slots to it. It tended to get split up too much to effectively deal with pets that had shields, and it wasn't so great at clearing spam that most people would sacrifice other tactical abilities to get it. Against multiple player ships it was virtually worthless -- the shots just got too spread out to do more than tickle shields.

I agree that it's gotten a bit silly, but if it was okay as it was then people would have been using it to clear spam. PSW, EWP, and GW were all much better against spam than FAW. Now FAW makes those other powers unnecessary when it comes to spam control.

I really think the problem with the new FAW is that it's something that you use every time it's available. I'm fine with it being powerful, but in that case it needs a cooldown more in line with other powerful AOEs. It's fine if it would no longer be the only ability you need for clearing spam, because every ship has plenty of slots to carry a second AOE somewhere.

At any rate, if the old FAW was fine for clearing spam, it would have been used to clear spam. It's pretty obvious that wasn't happening.

(Side note: the hints on the loading screens suggest using torpedo spreads to clear spam -- I really don't see that happening either.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-30-2011, 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
How does it work when there is only one target in range?
Pretty much the same way Cannon Scatter Volley works, which is why you don't see KDF players calling for a chage to CSV.

The BFAW changes are fine - no 'fixing' needed (ahnd I PvP on both sides of the aisle.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-30-2011, 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
The problem is it deals with Spam and Players at the same time, basically. TO clear spam, it would mostly be enough if it generates 10 % or so of the normal beam damage. But it adds 100 %, which is a lot if you deal with a team. Basically, if you see a 5-man team BFAWing, you do see spam cleared, and then the enemy opposition. Aside from self-healing, you don't seem to really need much else in powers.
Does BFAW allow Cruisers to out-damage Escorts?

Is BFAW good enough that an Escort might decide to ditch cannons altogether and equip Dual Beam Arrays?

Thanks for all the answers everyone. I know these questions probably sound really dumb.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-30-2011, 09:25 AM
Its fine the way it is now, if you want a change then i say you have to change scatter to because they work the same way now. A lot of the oped calls are well if the team has 5 guys using it then its oped well hell that works for anything really so what do we nerf everything because if the whole team uses it its oped?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-30-2011, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post
Does BFAW allow Cruisers to out-damage Escorts?

Is BFAW good enough that an Escort might decide to ditch cannons altogether and equip Dual Beam Arrays?

Thanks for all the answers everyone. I know these questions probably sound really dumb.
Yes, Mostly (the best cannon escort players are still going to top dmg and kills... but by doing alot more work and being on their game, the cruiser player can go make a snack lol)

Yes some escorts will ditch cannons for beams, its not the VERY broken previous faw, its the new still but not as badly broken version. single target is not fantastic, you may see more dmg, but not more kills. (imho new faw is not suited for an escort... a team of 3-4 faw with one or two cannon escorts for clean up will role)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-30-2011, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post
[font="Verdana"][color="DeepSkyBlue"]Does BFAW allow Cruisers to out-damage Escorts?
Out-damage, but not out-kill. A team of 5 cruisers can get kills through focussing fire on one target. The primary target will catch half of all the shots with FAW, while the other half get spread among secondary targets, so without focus fire it's not that effective at punching through defenses. What FAW does though is force the secondary targets to use defenses early, and it makes healing a lot more chaotic.

Quote:
Is BFAW good enough that an Escort might decide to ditch cannons altogether and equip Dual Beam Arrays?
Some do, but cannons are still better for kills.

On my Defiant-R I sometimes switch out to all beams, but it's not for FAW as much as it is for dogfighting with escorts and BoPs. If the enemy is mostly in light, maneuverable ships then there is sometimes an advantage in keeping fire on them more consistently while we dodge and circle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-30-2011, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
Pretty much the same way Cannon Scatter Volley works, which is why you don't see KDF players calling for a chage to CSV.

The BFAW changes are fine - no 'fixing' needed (ahnd I PvP on both sides of the aisle.)
Cannon Scatter Volley still doesn't work as BFAW does.

Let's pretend you were using Turrets. That means 360 firing arc. Even if you do that, you can still only hit target in a limited arc around your primary target - that is a restriction of the power, not your choice of weapon. That is fine if your entire team can manage to keep the entire enemy tam into that arc. But that's unrealistic and will basically never happen.

With BFAW, you shoot all enemies in range and any firing arc your beams can reach - that your entire team can keep the entire enemy team into firing range is relatively likely - and if you don't, you still do not lose damage, your extra shots are simple put onto less enemies then beore,meaning these enemies take more damage then before. That does not happen with CSV, either. If you got less then 3 targets, you will lose overall damage.If you're using Cannons, you also have more range penalties.

In addition, Cannon Scatter Volley has a different uptime.
  • BFAW: 15 Seconds 5 second Break (Global Cooldown) 15 Seconds Fire, 5 Second Break (GC) = 75 % uptime
  • CSV: 10 Second Duration, 5 Second Break (GD), 10 Second Duration, 5 Second Break (GC) = 66 % uptime
Cannon Scatter Volley is also a Lt. Tactical skill, that means _only_ Escorts can achieve that 66 % uptime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon
Does BFAW allow Cruisers to out-damage Escorts?

Is BFAW good enough that an Escort might decide to ditch cannons altogether and equip Dual Beam Arrays?

Thanks for all the answers everyone. I know these questions probably sound really dumb.
There are not many tactical buffs that would allow +100 % damage output with one power.
Of course, the difference is that the 100 % extra damage is against multiple targets, not focused on one - that is something that makes it "okay" if you deal more total damage with area effects, as burst damage is often important to beat an enemy in the first place. But BFAW seems to cross the borderline for this - you don't need to bring any burst anymore, the pressure of BFAW can suffice.
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