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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
04-12-2011, 01:12 PM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yreodred

In my opinion all non cruiser ships, especially escorts, need a bit more Hull and shield Hitpoints, and a BIT less attack power, i think as soon as a game needs a class that can kill others in a matter of seconds, something goes really wrong IMHO.

The deadliness of the Escort is offset by its squishyness as a part of game balance.
The Squishyness of the Escort can be mitigated by Captain carreer choice (Science or Engie) at a loss of damage output.
Those that kill in seconds are iether pure Tac with low defenses or a Cross-carreer set up that takes other abilities and uses them to increase the deadlyness of the Escort like Science can.

Quote:
I am sorry but i have no idea what you are talking about.

.
If all ships are brought closer to centerline in that they all do damage, healing and CC somewhat they same then the game no longer will need a seperation of Captain carreer choice or vessel types.
I can be quite vague at times without realizing it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
04-12-2011, 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
It would too unbalance the game unless you did similiar alterrations to the other vessels in STO.
In order to keep the AssCruiser or Gal-X from being too powerful Escorts would need a once-over to see where they would need a LTC/COM engineering, Science BOff slot rank increase as well.
At that point the game gets just gets several more steps closer to being "vanilla" factions with fan pandered "uber-ships" holding the most sway.
This is not a good thing.
It seems that we agree about the MVAM Prometheus being unbalanced ;D
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
04-12-2011, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
The deadliness of the Escort is offset by its squishyness as a part of game balance.
The Squishyness of the Escort can be mitigated by Captain carreer choice (Science or Engie) at a loss of damage output.
Those that kill in seconds are iether pure Tac with low defenses or a Cross-carreer set up that takes other abilities and uses them to increase the deadlyness of the Escort like Science can.

If all ships are brought closer to centerline in that they all do damage, healing and CC somewhat they same then the game no longer will need a seperation of Captain carreer choice or vessel types.
I can be quite vague at times without realizing it.
Now i understand...
My suggestion was not to make all ships the same, but to give them ALL more survivability, so that battles do not become some kind of reaction test (sorry i couldn't find a better word).

But i would more like to see more differences between FED and KDF.
I have written more of my weird ideas about this on another tread, if you are interested:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...6&postcount=30


Live long and prosper.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
04-22-2011, 04:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohNyNorMuS View Post
Yeah I get what he's saying but trading the ability to slot tac team 1 for tac team 3 instead isn't a balanced change. Lets not kid ourselves level 3 abilities are more powerful than level 1. I suggest he tries out an excelsior-r if he wants the extra high level tac powers.
I don't want to use the Excelsior it is a ugly ship I hate the way it looks and and it is one of the oldest ships in the Star Trek universe so I don't get why that is the most powerful cruiser in sto and the newer ships like the Assault cruiser and Galaxy X are so much weaker then that old bucket....We can agree to disagree here but I that the Assault cruiser and the Galaxy X should have the same one or at lest the Galaxy X I mean come one everyone say's it has cannons and I say BIG DEAL because of the Lt BO slot you can not even use stuff Scatter shoot 1 or Rapid Fire 1 so what the hell.....so don't add it to the Assault Cruiser but I think the Galaxy X needs at lest a Lt. Commander BO slot and for a $25 ship it should have it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
04-22-2011, 05:28 AM
This is so dam stupid....NOTHING NEEDS TO BE DONE TO THE ESCORTS!!!! I mean come on Escorts have the most firepower in the whole game they can use cannons and they have BO slot Commander and Lt Commander for Tac. and they are the most agile ships in STO and they have 4 Tac console spaces.......Cruisers have a slow turn rate and have all most no firepower the Galaxy X has 2 Tac console spots and the Assault cruiser has 3.....now how do you all think Escorts need more??????? I am not saying be like a Escort and add to 2 Tac BO slots like the Escort I am saying do away with the ensign BO slot and have just ONE Tac slot and make it a Lt Commander or Commander now by doing that it is not gong to unbalance nothing the Escorts are still going to have more firepower then the Cruisers so what the hell.....the only thing it is going to do is give cruisers a little more firepower not much in the end.....Look and this is a fact...cruisers yes may be able to take a little more damage but you get 2 Escorts or more on you and you are gone. Their dam cannons cut right thru your shields like nothing and the Buff's you have well that don't last long in the end they will take you out yes you can last longer by switching all your power to you shields but even that will not hold them off for long and then you attack power goes down to nothing......this is why the Cruisers need the BO slot Lt. Commander or Commander so we have a little more of a fighting chance by adding that.....it is not going to unbalance nothing again the Escorts are still going to way out do the Cruisers in firepower. I think what it is is the Escort user's like going in there and being able to just take out the Cruisers and they think it is so funny and they don't want that to change because god forbid the cruisers have a chance to fight back now that is would not be fair at all would it???
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
04-22-2011, 05:36 AM
If I'm reading this right you think cruisers are underpowered.
So you want them buffed, but only the Sovereign and the Gal-X, none of the others.
Is there a specific reason why only those two and neither the regular Galaxy-R nor the Star Crusier, not to mention the Klingon counterparts?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
04-22-2011, 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix1701 View Post
This is so dam stupid....NOTHING NEEDS TO BE DONE TO THE ESCORTS!!!! I mean come on Escorts have the most firepower in the whole game they can use cannons and they have BO slot Commander and Lt Commander for Tac. and they are the most agile ships in STO and they have 4 Tac console spaces.......Cruisers have a slow turn rate and have all most no firepower the Galaxy X has 2 Tac console spots and the Assault cruiser has 3.....now how do you all think Escorts need more??????? I am not saying be like a Escort and add to 2 Tac BO slots like the Escort I am saying do away with the ensign BO slot and have just ONE Tac slot and make it a Lt Commander or Commander now by doing that it is not gong to unbalance nothing the Escorts are still going to have more firepower then the Cruisers so what the hell.....the only thing it is going to do is give cruisers a little more firepower not much in the end.....Look and this is a fact...cruisers yes may be able to take a little more damage but you get 2 Escorts or more on you and you are gone. Their dam cannons cut right thru your shields like nothing and the Buff's you have well that don't last long in the end they will take you out yes you can last longer by switching all your power to you shields but even that will not hold them off for long and then you attack power goes down to nothing......this is why the Cruisers need the BO slot Lt. Commander or Commander so we have a little more of a fighting chance by adding that.....it is not going to unbalance nothing again the Escorts are still going to way out do the Cruisers in firepower. I think what it is is the Escort user's like going in there and being able to just take out the Cruisers and they think it is so funny and they don't want that to change because god forbid the cruisers have a chance to fight back now that is would not be fair at all would it???
*Checks date, checks date again, scratches head*

Um... is this an old post from last year that got relabeled as being this year? Reminds me of the forum out cries back when escorts really could one shot a cruiser. Look if you are not putting out almost as much damage as a engi/scort hybrid and can't tank one escort indefinitely under the current system you need to look at your build and your play style.

Cruisers have it pretty easy, look at DEM, EPtW, bridge officer beam skills that come on at lower levels than cannon skills, oh and that wonderful career skill engies get that drops a *** ton of extra power into your sub systems who's name I forget. Spec for them and use these skills right and you can put out almost as much average damage as a escort, (read average not spike). Oh and if you use beams being agile is not as important. Despite the fact that a Gal-x can mount dual heavies, unless you have your alpha strike down to a science, and only intend to duel and do PvE, use beams.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
04-22-2011, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
If I'm reading this right you think cruisers are underpowered.
So you want them buffed, but only the Sovereign and the Gal-X, none of the others.
Is there a specific reason why only those two and neither the regular Galaxy-R nor the Star Crusier, not to mention the Klingon counterparts?
Don't know about points against the the Star Cruisers, but against the Galaxy R:

- Saucer seperation

I believe I opened at least 1 thread + several post that all T5 ships should get their 'Sub-Class' as a LTC slot instead of LT+ Ens, thus far only the Prometheus got that upgrade...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
04-22-2011, 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix1701 View Post
do I need to draw a pitcher.....
It depends on what's on draft. If there are more premium beers, then a pitcher would be great. if it's just Bud or something, I'll go with bottled.

That being said, it would be nice if they changed the Tac BOFF seat to be similar to the Excelsior Refit on the Gal-X. As much as I *want* to love the Gal-X, it's just sooo hard because the ship is just suboptimal. And there are graphical issues that niggle at me, but that's a whole different thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
05-02-2011, 04:32 PM
The thing to remember about the Lt. Cmdr slot is that the ships that gain it in their "secondary class" lost it in their primary class.

All of the ships which were originally made available at RA have the same BO layout. They have a Cmdr, and Lt. Cmdr of their primary class. They have a Lt of each of the two other classes, and then they have an Ensign of their secondary class. So they have two each of BOs for their primary and secondary class, Cmdr and Lt. Cmdr for the primary, and Lt and Ensign for the secondary.

The three Tier 4 refits also follow the same pattern, with the Ensign being assigned to the primary class. So the refits all get THREE BOs for the primary class, Cmdr/Lt Cmdr/Ensign, and a Lt for each of their other two classes.

The Excelsior and Nebula (I am assuming) were the first to change the standard to add a third option, the Lt Cmdr for the secondary class. But this cost the Lt and Ensign slot of the secondary class, which were then turned over to the primary class. So again, you have Cmdr/Lt/Ensign for the primary class, and Lt Cmdr for the secondary class and Lt for the tertiary class. (The Nebula's universal slot adds to this, as it can add a second Engineering or Tactical slot, at the cost of the third science slot)

There just simply haven't been enough new ships added to the game to run the full selection of these options. And honestly, I'm not sure the system is flexible enough as it is. I liked the suggestion to allow the captain to choose an "alternate Bridge", allowing him to choose between the Lt/Ensign or the Lt Cmdr for his secondary class. But I don't know if the devs would allow this, and I think just allowing you to select your Bridge layout entirely would be too overpowered.
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