Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-05-2011, 02:48 AM
Quote:
Unfortunately its legal, just unethical in taking advantage of others in a vulnerable state.

IMHO, I am glad Cryptic decided to get rid of the War Zones in turn for something better.
It is a _war_ zone. Attacking people in a vulnerable state is the preferred way of waging war. There are internationally accepted laws and convention on how to conduct warfare, but "wait until the fight is fair and both sides are balanced" is not part of such conventions.

I have been victim to many of such surprise attacks. Sometimes I lose, sometimes I win. The times I lost make the times I win so much sweeter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-05-2011, 04:35 AM
Nothing wrong with that kind insta-kill combo, and plenty of ways to avoid it:

- Keep moving! A moving target is a PITA to get a good crit on.
- Buff resists when you hear the BoP buff up (pre-decloak). EPtoS is usually all you need to avoid insta-popping.
- As soon as you're attacked, hit RSP or Tac Team.
- Other counters can be quickly hitting TBR or PSW.

The insta-kill-BoP is a highly specialized tool. It sacrifices it's sustained DPS, as well as it's survivability, to be able to perform one complicated attack with an extreme chance of failing. Surviving is mostly about preparing and/or reacting fast enough.

If you survive the initial strike you're usually safe, and it becomes a matter if you can follow/hold the BoP when he makes a run for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-05-2011, 07:24 AM
fair tactic, not an exploit.
Follow the advice given in this thread and you will be better prepared for conflict in your next visit to Ker'rat and you may just turn the tables on those mean ol'BoPs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-05-2011, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krowseye
While in Ker'ret doing the daily tonight, I had a couple of klinks in BoP get right next to me, decloaked, fired cannons, fired tricobalt torp, then I blew up. My question is, is that fair? To me it seems like a way to drive players away from the zone. Granted, I know it's a pvp zone, or a sorta pvp zone, but that just seems wrong that they can do that. Since the devs don't seem to care about players ganking & driving other players out of a zone which stops them from getting there emblems for the over priced ships in the c-store (if that's your goal) isn't right. I was in my sov ship with power on the shields which makes them 125/100. To have them dropped that fast then get blown up by a torp is annoying. I want the emblems which means I have to go in there if I want those 3. I saw players leaving because of these 2 klinks killing them like that. Can't even finish the daily because of it. Battle cloaks should be twiked some to make them a little bit fairer in pvp. Maybe after they decloak they can't fire weapons for 1 or 2 secs.


Not let the flaming begin.

Tactical BoP with all its buffs can destroy you fast. They get insane amount damage from buffs. Its unfair? Yes against escort. but not against cruisers. The ballance prob is escort vs cruiser not tactical vs another.
Silly and unfair is the universal station+battlecloak (psw and/or cpb spam)... anyhow. not many cares about it. (tactical with psw+cpb+trico just works fine vs any ship)
And about keeping empts or rsp. psw+cpb spammer sci lolBoP will just snb yuo, stun you, and kill you. so there is not really counter against it. They rarely attack you if you are with a friend, just if they outnumbering you. And if attack fails, they evasive+engibatt+deuterium+battlecloak away anyway. BC is silly in this game so OPvP/war zone will suck.

Anyhow. Its not exploit, nor fair, but lolBoPs are easymode, and lolBoP science is very easymode.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-05-2011, 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
It is a _war_ zone. Attacking people in a vulnerable state is the preferred way of waging war. There are internationally accepted laws and convention on how to conduct warfare, but "wait until the fight is fair and both sides are balanced" is not part of such conventions.

I have been victim to many of such surprise attacks. Sometimes I lose, sometimes I win. The times I lost make the times I win so much sweeter.
You shouldn't compare real world war conventions with PvP. Because if you saw an enemy solider being attacked by villagers. animals, or even hit by a vehicle, you are not going to shoot that enemy solider. Instead, you likely to take pity on him and render aid to him.

Now if that wounded enemy solider decides he's going down fighting, then you are in your full right to defend yourself.

But in PvP, it's similar and shows the kind of person you are.
  • Do you take advantage of the situation and get an easy kill?
  • Wait til that person is no longer being attacked by NPCs to attack?
  • Or go an honorable route and attack a player that is far from NPCs and out in the open?

I for one choose Option 3.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-05-2011, 11:29 AM
While we are on the topic can some one explain something to me. Recently on my Raptor I have noticed target switching like you are scrambled but you are not scrambled. It usually happens when I am lining a target up for an alpha and then once I have decloaked my target is switched to one behind me or a team mate. Since I am a raptor I have all target assist turned off since I rarely throw heals but lately it has been getting annoying but only happens in the above described situation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-05-2011, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
While we are on the topic can some one explain something to me. Recently on my Raptor I have noticed target switching like you are scrambled but you are not scrambled. It usually happens when I am lining a target up for an alpha and then once I have decloaked my target is switched to one behind me or a team mate. Since I am a raptor I have all target assist turned off since I rarely throw heals but lately it has been getting annoying but only happens in the above described situation.
I have experienced this as well. It appears to be happening when I use an ability that can help other players like TactTeam, HE or TSS
I run a complicated keybind to cycle through some of my buffs and heals as I spam a key and noticed this happening alot in pvp when I did so.
The ability in question will target a friendly then target the nearest hostile to you regardless of whether they are in your forward LOS and not return to your original target.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-05-2011, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
You shouldn't compare real world war conventions with PvP. Because if you saw an enemy solider being attacked by villagers. animals, or even hit by a vehicle, you are not going to shoot that enemy solider. Instead, you likely to take pity on him and render aid to him.
[/QUOTE
Now if that wounded enemy solider decides he's going down fighting, then you are in your full right to defend yourself.
The Borg are not civilians or a car running over another soldier. They are another set of enemies, and they happen to fight another of my enemies. If such a scenario would occur in the real world, you can bet that any decently trained military commander would exploit the opportunity and send in his troops when the enemy is weakest. Assuming of course, that there is no opportunity to turn an enemy into a friend. But the Borg will always be my enemy, and so will the KDF or the Federation (depending on which faction I am playing), what I do in Ker'rat cannot change this, only Cryptic can.

Morever, in the real world, killing someone is permanent. The guy is dead and will stay so for all eternity. In Ker'rat, the guy is just another 15 seconds away from his next respawn.


Quote:
But in PvP, it's similar and shows the kind of person you are.
  • Do you take advantage of the situation and get an easy kill?
  • Wait til that person is no longer being attacked by NPCs to attack?
  • Or go an honorable route and attack a player that is far from NPCs and out in the open?

I for one choose Option 3.
I might pick any of the 3 choices, including number 4 "do nothing and just go my way". It depends on my mood on what I pick.

There is no greater honor in war then winning.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-05-2011, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
The Borg are not civilians or a car running over another soldier. They are another set of enemies, and they happen to fight another of my enemies. If such a scenario would occur in the real world, you can bet that any decently trained military commander would exploit the opportunity and send in his troops when the enemy is weakest. Assuming of course, that there is no opportunity to turn an enemy into a friend. But the Borg will always be my enemy, and so will the KDF or the Federation (depending on which faction I am playing), what I do in Ker'rat cannot change this, only Cryptic can.

Morever, in the real world, killing someone is permanent. The guy is dead and will stay so for all eternity. In Ker'rat, the guy is just another 15 seconds away from his next respawn.
All the more reason Ker'rat is stupid because the Klingons would ally with the Federation against the Borg, like in Gamma Orionis, not fight to stop the other defeating the Borg.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
04-05-2011, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
All the more reason Ker'rat is stupid because the Klingons would ally with the Federation against the Borg, like in Gamma Orionis, not fight to stop the other defeating the Borg.
Not would , but may ally with the federation against a superior enemy.
Remember that the Klingon race is a proud and boastful species and tend to sometimes bite more than they can chew in in effort to feed their pride (just like some humans)
While combining against a superior foe is a wise thing, not all sentiants are wise and even if it occurs, such allied efforts would soon be back to FvK after the Borg where destroyed.
Though I do agree the design of Ker'rat makes little sense to me as well.
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