Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-12-2011, 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
Hey! Maybe this bit from April's Ask Cryptic can also help a little:
That's quite awesome; I hadn't read that yet! I'm glad it's been discussed even if just a little.

I posted a while ago about this topic, and it's still one that I feel strongly about. Perhaps if I place a reminder here there is some tiny chance that it can add food for thought to the discussion over at Cryptic. No? Ok, fine. Here it is anyway:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...76#post3488976

And quoted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuvinn
The captains are set up such that we, as players, essentially have to choose between being effective in ground vs being effective in space.

While I strongly agree that skill points should involve tough choices that effect the game in a meaningful way (where's the challenge otherwise?), our choices shouldn't preclude us from experiencing over half of the game's content in an optimal manner.

There should be choices, but since ground and space combat are necessarily mutually exclusive, it would follow sense that the associated game play style choices should be unrelated. This means separate skill points for ground and space skills.

Also, it doesn't make sense that the captain's personal skills should have such drastic consequences for the physical attributes of a starship as well as the skills of bridge officers sitting at their consoles pushing buttons. The space abilities lock us in to flying a specific ship,again causing our skill choices to limit our enjoyment of content which is already mutually exclusive with the other choices (ie, we can only fly one ship at once, so why must we choose our ship via captain's skills as well? We choose a ship by choosing a ship; that's enough. The skills defeat the purpose of being able to own multiple ships and switch out at the starbase)

Thus, I suggest reorganizing the skills such that the captain's skills affect ground combat and leadership qualities (as would make sense), while the space abilities are replaced by a set of "skills" belonging to the starship itself (rather than skills, call it configuration or programming or something), which would involve choices between the ship's physical attributes and the performance of different kinds of space abilities.


The results:
- Players' experience is improved because meaningful game play style choices still exist, but no longer pigeonhole the player into (optimally) experiencing only a subset of the content.


- Developers/designers can control the gameplay experience more reliably because all players will have a predictable magnitude of skills (albeit in different configurations) for any given environment, rather than a widely varying range of skills (resulting in much stronger/weaker player characters in the same environment).
I probably could have explained it better, but I was trying to keep it brief. Nobody likes a textwall. Basically the premise is to separate ground and space as thoroughly as possible. IMO this necessarily extends to captain/officer/ship "skill" separation as well if you want the whole thing to make sense (and for maximum benefit)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-12-2011, 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
Hey! Maybe this bit from April's Ask Cryptic can also help a little:
so they are working on it, gr8, i love that response, it's probibly true but it's getting a bit old now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-12-2011, 10:33 PM
The point is, if they fix ground combat and the difficulty scaling the won't need to add in dual sliders.

I'm all for it, but Elite gets pretty silly on ground combat. Between Swordmasters (which is a misnomer as they are "dual pistol masters"...)and the silly respawn rate of the mobs at that level, it does become impossible, as you're just recovering from the first mob when they re-spawn right behind you. Gah!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-13-2011, 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Black_Man
The point is, if they fix ground combat and the difficulty scaling the won't need to add in dual sliders.

I'm all for it, but Elite gets pretty silly on ground combat. Between Swordmasters (which is a misnomer as they are "dual pistol masters"...)and the silly respawn rate of the mobs at that level, it does become impossible, as you're just recovering from the first mob when they re-spawn right behind you. Gah!

I agree.. I don't think the dual difficulty slider is an appropriate solution for the problem at hand. I'm not opposed to it in itself; I just don't want it to substitute for more meaningful fixes to ground combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-13-2011, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuvinn
I agree.. I don't think the dual difficulty slider is an appropriate solution for the problem at hand. I'm not opposed to it in itself; I just don't want it to substitute for more meaningful fixes to ground combat.
Fixes need to be made to ground combat regardless, definitely. However, I don't think that this will address the reasonable desire to split ground and space difficulty. They're two separate games, and some people simply don't enjoy one or the other.

I do believe that split difficulty would also necessitate split SP so as not to favor twinking out for one side or another.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-13-2011, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
Fixes need to be made to ground combat regardless, definitely. However, I don't think that this will address the reasonable desire to split ground and space difficulty. They're two separate games, and some people simply don't enjoy one or the other.

I do believe that split difficulty would also necessitate split SP so as not to favor twinking out for one side or another.
Sorry I guess I was unclear. In general I support separating both the difficulty and the skills. I just care more about the skills as well as other changes to ground combat

The separate difficulty sounds cool, but that alone won't "fix" ground combat
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-13-2011, 09:35 PM
I would love if ground and space difficulty could be separated. Ground PvE is just tedious. Some enemy groups are nearly impossible, but even "easy" enemies are tedious and unfun.

Honestly, I'd rather see the NPCs behave more like players. At tougher levels they should lead with their big attacks and use them on every cooldown the way players do. But instead they mostly hit you with relatively low damage attacks while taking 5 or 10 times the damage a player could.

Ground fights in Star Trek tended to be fast-paced, so the game ought to better reflect that. NPCs should die pretty quickly, and their "difficulty" ought to increase by letting them use high-damage attacks more frequently at higher difficulty levels. Higher difficulty ought to feel more dangerous -- right now it mostly just takes a lot longer.
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