Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 STFs and Irritation
04-11-2011, 07:22 PM
So, four days ago, I played Infected (Vice Admiral) for the first time ever. It was brutal, and midway through part 2, my team's only engineer bailed on us, which quickly led to the team's destruction. I tried to find a new team on part 2 for TWO DAYS without success, and restarted the mission at the Rear Admiral level. By contrast, it was a cakewalk. Don't get me wrong, it was still long and not easy, but it was MUCH easier than the VA version.

Ten minutes ago, I played The Cure for the first time ever. I did not even bother with the Vice Admiral version. It took about 5 to 6 hours and one teammate swap to finish. It was unnecessarily brutal, long, arduous, and not in the least bit fun. Keeping the transformers powered while not drawing aggro is NOT easy. The guides I have found were oddly nebulous about that part - the one on STO wiki just says put two guys here, one guy here, etc, and do it. Well, it doesn't work out quite that well in game. Granted, the boss battles were very easy compared to getting there, with teammates getting KO'd in positions where a healer couldn't get to them, having to clear the area, and restart the whole process. It was a MAJOR pain in the ass.

This brings me to the point of this thread - what specifically is wrong with these missions. I don't bemoan the difficulty of the Borg in these missions; by its very nature, a STF is supposed to be difficult. What I do bemoan is two-fold:

1. The lack of respawn points - There was one respawn point on the ground in both missions. Seriously, Cryptic? Running back through all the areas you've already been through serves no purpose other than to irritate.

2. The time required to complete these missions - Some of us have lives, Cryptic. We can't devote 2+ hours to a single mission and yet that apparently bars us from having the best ship equipment or experiencing these stories firsthand. Some of you will say 'That's why they broke the mission up into parts!' Sure, you could drop the mission and pick it up again later, except that there are two problems with that - first, you're letting your team down (after all, how many teams will take a member when they know that member will have to leave after 45 min?) and second, if you make any kind of progress, finding a team to group with on that mission and on that exact part becomes exponentially harder.

Sure, I acknowledge that a team who has more experience with the STFs and is maxed out with everybody using the recommended equipment will probably fare better. How often does that happen with PUGs, though? I'd be willing to bet not very. In situations where your playtime is limited, you have to take what you can get, and if that isn't good enough, then something is wrong with the game.

So, there it is, Cryptic. STFs need more respawn points and need to be shorter. I've said my piece.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-11-2011, 08:08 PM
Yes, the Cure needs at least three more respawn points. There needs to be a new one after each force field wall, and another near by Amek. As for Infected, Look up one of my characters and see if I am on. I am happy to get you past Infected on either setting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-12-2011, 04:32 AM
I'm one of those people that goes out of their way to help pugs especially newbies do STF's and leading them to the point that I tell them what they should need before setting foot in to them and talking them through each step so it should be a pain free process. I've even started sitting in Gamma space seeing if anyone needs help rather than form a team myself.


...


Sadly it never ends up like that and people will go out of their way to mess things up and even my patience has it's limits. Generally speaking (not necessarily previous posters) people complain of how impossible STF's are and how bad they are and yet I've been in STF's yet beat VA cure in 1hr 16mins because the person leading knew his stuff and we made it through each gate with no hassle at all. I had pretty much the best kit going although a/ nothing was obtained via STF's beforehand and b/ I had to be given a stun pistol mkx green (so nothing special) which was so effective because it wasn't the level of the weapon that was important but the effect it had. Up until then I used HD beams which always worked for me and hadn't really thought about stunning/exposing/exploting workers but you can never stop learning in STO and now I know a better way to beat the cure. I've still not gotten around to getting a better mkxi purple stun pistol yet but that mkx green still does the job.

Leadership, preparation and having the right equipment makes STF's so much easier but there are some people who still think mindless pewpew rambo without items or the worst choice of equipment equals instant quick success in STFs.

I'm looking to come up with a guide on how to beat the cure detailing pictures, mayeb a couple of short videos, exact places where to go so no one can be under any confusion at all what to do. Perhaps you can test it out when I'm done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-12-2011, 08:49 AM
Hey, I appreciate the replies and the offers of help; I truly do. Now that I've done both Infected and The Cure, however, my intention is to never do them again. Ever. They simply weren't my idea of fun; they were frustrating, long, and the only reason I even considered doing them in the first place is for the assimilated ship components (the kicker is that I don't even want the assimilated deflector from The Cure - I want the assimilated shields from KA).

Oh, and believe me, I am aware that experience and teamwork can make these missions that much easier. When I finally got to do Infected all the way through, I was with a group who had mostly done it before, and it went like clockwork for us. I'm not advocating for dumbing these down so that anybody can go into these blind and win easily - not at all. However, when you have done your homework, you do have the right gear, a team member or two who has done it before, and you still get your ass handed to you repeatedly, that I do have a problem with. Now that I think about it, stun pistols would've worked out pretty well in The Cure; I used cryo grenades instead (they froze the workers for a long time; long enough for me to pick them off with photon grenades and my sniper rifle). Of course the problem with my method is that not everybody will have access to cryo grenades, but I say now, if you have them, use them.

And yes, more detailed walkthroughs would, I'm sure, be welcome for newcomers who haven't done these yet. Of particular interest to me yesterday would have been good sniping positions for each gate and paths to take to avoid the respawned drones when you die and have to go all the way back to the first respawn point. Other tidbits of note - watch your AoE attacks on workers; they might splash and draw aggro and be wary of dropping security escorts; they will probably help cover you, sure, but you can't control where they go, and they might end up drawing aggro to another teammate (happened to me several times on gate 4 - somebody dropped escorts, one engaged an elite tac drone who then killed him and turned on me cause I was closest).

All that said, in my opinion, if these STFs were set up properly, a good, prepared team should be able to knock out Infected, The Cure, and Khitomer Accords in about two hours; not one to two hours per mission. I also think that resetting the 24 hour timer on them if you drop them is unnecessary. If you complete them, sure, wait 24 hours, but not if you drop the mission before completing it - that just makes it harder to get going again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-12-2011, 09:26 AM
STF missions are not design for PUG. Sorry, but that is the simple truth of it. They are completely doable with a organize group. Last night my team with players from 528th and 12th Fleet finish the Cure in 50 minutes.

The 528th live stream The Cure last Sunday and finish it in 53 minutes.

http://528th.mmoguildsites.com/pages/13082

Note: 528th will be live stream again next Sunday.

Now when the new in game Voice Chat is added it will making easier for PUG to do these missions but you'll still need teamwork and good gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
There is nothing wrong with PUG's... This isn't about PUG's. This is about STF's... STF's were never designed to be PUG friendly... Complaining that STF's are not PUG friendly is a big waste of time. It's apples and oranges..

You want apples and STF's are oranges. We made PUG friendly group missions those are called Fleet Actions... All you have to do in a fleet action is show up, it doesnt get any easier than that.

There are a bunch of things wrong with Terradome.. I've said so myself, I don't like the mission much at all. But I had nothing to do with it's creation in the first place.

As for STF's I've already stated that they are all going to get a overhaul soon.. It will make them much more pug friendly and still preserve thier design principles.. but there will still be people that don't like them, that I can promise you.

There are only 4 STF's in a game... if you don't like them.. Don't play them.. It's that simple.

MMO's are like buffets.. You have to make stuff that appeals to more than one group of people. That's why we have PVP, PVE, Fleet Actions, and STF's.

We don't expect everyone to like everything, that's impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
Yes they do... which is exactly the type of groups that STF's are designed for. You have to plan, you have to know the right things to do and when, and you have to communicate with each other to succeed. If these are not things you do well, don't play these missions.


Yes.. Yes we can ignore people that try to PUG it.. when 99.9% of the rest of the missions in the game are soloable.. It's pretty simple really, if STF's frustrate you, don't play them. There are plenty of people that find them enjoyable.... End of story ...

Goz
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-12-2011, 10:23 AM
I would be happy with spawn points and bosses that are harder then the toughest part of the grind. I want to be able to do a STF not just one way, IMO they should pick one STF and that should be hard enough to need a premade group and the rest should be do able with a pug.

No slam on pugs, I have done infected easy in a pug. with 2 experienced players I had done it as well a LONG time ago so I guess 2.5 All you need is people who arent foolish...play it smart, have good gear, be specced in ground seriously...and dont just charge in. Shoot at what everyone is shooting at, kill one thing at a time, having 5 1/2 dead guys shooting at you is still 5 guys shooting at you.

hardest part is high end gear. purple and anti borg are your best friend.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-12-2011, 10:24 AM
Sorry dude but every mmo has something like the STF in them. And they always contain the most powerfull equipment in the game to that point. AND THEY ARE ALWAYS long drawnout, hairpulling ordeals that take significant time to invest in or the reward would not be what they are. If you want a quick mission do the dailies.

But i do agree that there need to be more spawn points in the stf's. There used to be a spawn point for each gate in cure. Then they took them all out except for the one before the ground boss. Then after numerous complaints they added TWO at the second and 4th gates. Which means you have to do the entire hardest portion of the mission or its back to running your :::: off.

As for the strategies on parts like the generators. There is no solid method. There are at least 4 ways i know of on how to deal with them, but they all require someone familiar with the strategy and cooperation from THE ENTIRE TEAM. but it is worth it in the end when you can have a ship clipping through sector space at 50% more speed than anyone else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-16-2011, 09:37 AM
It helps to find an experienced group. The Clan Hunters run all of the STFs all week long. Often the STF'ers will join the 'Fed STF' and/or 'KDF STF' channels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9 STF's Good Times
05-03-2011, 02:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitelight04
It helps to find an experienced group. The Clan Hunters run all of the STFs all week long. Often the STF'ers will join the 'Fed STF' and/or 'KFD STF' channels.
You mean the Fed STF and KDF STF channels

you switched some of the letters on KDF there
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-12-2011, 05:51 AM
I just did, Infected, The Cure and Khitomer Accord over the last 2 days all in PUGs, first time for The Cure and KA. I can agree there needs to be more spawn points but they are difficult because they are end game. The Cure was painfull, 4 hours to get it done and I was in a pretty decent group, no one left, no on complained, just a lot of timing issues with all the gates and worker drone, etc.

KA wasn't as bad, but we didn't have anyone experienced with the ground stage so it took a while with others helping instruct outside of team. KA was more like grinding to mem especial the first part, wash, rinse, repeat.

Out of the 3 Infected is by far the easiest because there is only one area with timers, etc. I'd say KA was next with a lot of teamwork coordination needed, and The Cure was the worse, I have no reason to ever run it again. I'd love to try it with an experienced group but no other way, I'm not a fan of ground combat and mixing that with all that timing, activation crap really gets to me after a while.

I have yet to do Terradome, but I hear it's kinda buggy so not sure I want to.

All of the bosses were quite easy I have to say, the ship at the end of KA isn't hard but takes some time.

I'd love to see some STF missions with some really nice puzzles not just timer stuff, KA was kinda neat with the shield generator things but nothing amazing. Some STFs with multiple ways to solve them would be nice, everything gets to cookie cutter and rince, repeat.
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