Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Ok...why is it that everytime a skill maybe presumed to be overpowered a majority of PVPers shout nerf rather than find or request reasonable counters? An example of this is what happened awhile back with Gravity Well. It was considered too OP against Carrier pets and fighter pets and was overly nerfed only to have it changed once again when it was considered too underpowered. A simple counter would have been increase impulse strength (not speed) of the pets so they had more "pull" and could better attempt an escape from GW. Or even make it so that certain attack patterns (the tac AP skills) work on pets to produce this affect to a minor degree.

Due to repeated complaints from PVPers, mechanics for PVE have suffered. Then PVEers complain to change things back.This is why I, as well as I'm sure many others, would appreciate proper counters to buffs/debuffs and such rather than the constant nerf/denerf requests. And in keeping with this, when missions are remastered...try to incorporate an education in play mechanics. An example of this would be if a mission involves the presence of a minefield in the area...offer solutions to the problem to tacs/engs/scis by suggesting skills that may aid in better dealing with this threat than the standard "shoot each individual mine" solution.

If the game did a better job of educating the playerbase of the possible counters to certain attacks/defenses/buffs/debuffs, people might be less inclined to cry nerf/denerf in PVP/PVE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-12-2011, 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuanManChu
If the game did a better job of educating the playerbase of the possible counters to certain attacks/defenses/buffs/debuffs, people might be less inclined to cry nerf/denerf in PVP/PVE.
An in-depth manual is desperately needed. When I bought the game after Christmas I was surprised at how spartan the booklet was. The tutorial at least gave me the basics, but I barely learned anything else about the game and its mechanics going through the PvE stories (and most of what I did learn at that point came from the forums). It was only until I started PvP'ing that I became to understand what some powers are good for, how to counter them, and what certain skills do. It's a learning process that doesn't take place unless you're forced to undertake it in order to do better at PvP, it seems. At least, that's been my experience.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-12-2011, 09:30 AM
The thing I noticed is this, many people on here don't realize that a properly structured class system makes it so that it ends up being a balanced game of rock/paper/scissors. No one class should be too OP against all other classes. Nor should one class have all counters for all things in the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-12-2011, 09:48 AM
I agree with the premise of your post but find that it may fall on deaf or biased ears.
The Devs (Stormshade in particular) did post a response once to expalin that the KDF was not OP and how their faction unique advanatges could be overcome. Even it was not taken or learned from as expected.
Would seem players want easy over adaptible, sadly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-12-2011, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
I agree with the premise of your post but find that it may fall on deaf or biased ears.
The Devs (Stormshade in particular) did post a response once to expalin that the KDF was not OP and how their faction unique advanatges could be overcome. Even it was not taken or learned from as expected.
Would seem players want easy over adaptible, sadly.
Would you be surprised to learn that I agree...the KDF should be more agressive in their skill presentation? This is one particular reason why I even ask that the factions have more unique skillsets. But, that aside, you said it yourself...the devs said the advantages KDF have can be overcome. My thing is this...show those in the game unaware of this how this is accomplished by educating them during their PVE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-12-2011, 10:09 AM
FIRST: I agree 500% that a true guide needs to be written for this game. Many players that would benefit most from a truly in depth guide will not bother to explore the forums for the info but would snatch a Prima guide in a heartbeat for the game. I bought the collectors edition when it cam out and more than half the book was artwork for weapons an ships i never saw in the game until recently.

SECOND: The players who cry nerf. Are the same players who decide they dont have the time to look through the forums for the relevant info and insist that its not there. Me and a couple fleetmates have written in depth guides and walkthroughs on our fleets website and we still get new people every month that here about our strategies and insites on stuff and say we need a guide, only to be told its there they just never looked.

There are counters out there to every power but you cant protect the game from devs responding to players who refuse to read the relevant info. Not to mention the fact that they do not realize there is no skill set that will counter everything in the game.

You have to keep several copies of each class with different skill sets in reserve to adapt to what your running up against. I have 2 different sets for stf 's depending on which one im doing and another for pvp. And even then i have adjust according to what other people are using. But its easier to yell NERF than to adapt there layout to deal with it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-12-2011, 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Would seem players want easy over adaptible, sadly.

Thats life eh? I find it here on the forums, in the game, in life in general.

It sucks, always have to take things away from those who are skilled or dedicated, basically those who persevere in order to protect those who are feeble minded or want everything now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-12-2011, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naphl View Post
Thats life eh? I find it here on the forums, in the game, in life in general.

It sucks, always have to take things away from those who are skilled or dedicated, basically those who persevere in order to protect those who are feeble minded or want everything now.
Then, perhaps the devs need to consider what is best for the game and not what is best for the "now now me me" types.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-12-2011, 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuanManChu
Then, perhaps the devs need to consider what is best for the game and not what is best for the "now now me me" types.

I've often thought they do a lot more pandering to the lowest common denominator than they do to the hardcore players.

I recognize that the LCD makes up the majority of their player base but if you neglect the hardcore klingon players or the hardcore PVPers or the hardcore RPers than you **** off the people who care the most.


I am a big fan of MMOs, and I do enjoy this game. I had a klingon at the level cap before they released Season 1. I used to PVP quite regularly. However I lost my patience with it after a while and just stopped playing. I played other MMOs, I went back to some single player games, hell I even spent a week playing Master of Orion II.

Eventually my friends in game brought me back in but I can't be the only person who is tired of wanting more from this game who doesn't get it.


I know I'm a little off topic here, but the whole thought sent me on a rant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-12-2011, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuanManChu
Would you be surprised to learn that I agree...the KDF should be more agressive in their skill presentation? This is one particular reason why I even ask that the factions have more unique skillsets. But, that aside, you said it yourself...the devs said the advantages KDF have can be overcome. My thing is this...show those in the game unaware of this how this is accomplished by educating them during their PVE.
It would be nice but I am not a Dev so I have no idea how one could design such a "training" mission.
Other than Stormshades one posting, others players have shaired the tips and tricks needed to overcome what some players consider OP in STO in the forums. You can lead a targ to water but you can not make them drink it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naphl View Post
Thats life eh? I find it here on the forums, in the game, in life in general.

It sucks, always have to take things away from those who are skilled or dedicated, basically those who persevere in order to protect those who are feeble minded or want everything now.
Ce la Ve.
Though a too casual of an outlook on life or gaming leads to laziness and an increase in fluff over intelligent and thought provoking gameplay. If one has a chance to fail due to difficulty, unprepardeness or just blind luck, it increases ones "feelings of victory" when one does succeed.
Take the Pi Canis KDF sorties for example, I love those missions though I have never successfully completed them. That level of difficulty gives a good sense of accomplishment to the player when they are completed correctly and should drive a player to "excel" if they are not completed succesfully.
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