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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
04-13-2011, 11:19 AM
Let's say Cryptic does decide to nerf Beam Fire At Will... what next?

More cries about spam hate?

What skill will the PvPers want nerfed next?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
04-13-2011, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post
Let's say Cryptic does decide to nerf Beam Fire At Will... what next?

More cries about spam hate?

What skill will the PvPers want nerfed next?
FYI, there have been a number of suggestions on fixing FaW w/o changing PvE impact. Most anyone who has fought an Arena match vs a 5 FaW team knows the zone of applied DPS is such that is counters far too much in abilities and tactics w/having far too little in comparison to counter it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
04-13-2011, 12:04 PM
I'm not disagreeing with you, but you didn't answer my question.

If Cryptic does nerf Beam Fire at Will then what skill do the PvPers want nerfed next?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
04-13-2011, 12:07 PM
I still like the idea of Aceton Field being enhanced to be FAWs counter.

As to what PvP'ers want to nerf next? Such a horrible thing to blaim nerfing just on us who enjoy pvp.
The carrier would not have been changed near as fast had it not been for those new (and unacustomed) to PvP that called for it first and started that drastic change. Possibly such changes to the carrier where not neccassary given how a "buffed" carrier may make BFAW (as it is now) seem fine.
Its not just the PvP'ers whom over-react or call for nerfs.
If it was up to the Non-PvP'ers or the newb's as some label them, the BoP would have long gone the way of the DoDo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
04-13-2011, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
As to what PvP'ers want to nerf next? Such a horrible thing to blaim nerfing just on us who enjoy pvp.
Where did I blame nerfing on just the PvPers?

It is true that there's been 137,482 threads complaining about BFAW and wanting it nerfed, all started by PvPers.

Before that it was 137,482 threads complaining about Cloaking Mines and Fighter spam.

Before that it I can't remember what it was that people wanted nerfed, but since this game has launched it's always been something. Since this game launched there's always been at least one thread about a particular power that "needs" to be nerfed, according to the PvPers.

And I'm not even saying that I disagree with you.

I'm simply asking a question: After Cryptic nerfs BFAW then what skill would the PvPers like nerfed next?

It's a simple question. Why can't anyone just answer it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
04-13-2011, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you, but you didn't answer my question.

If Cryptic does nerf Beam Fire at Will then what skill do the PvPers want nerfed next?
I can't speak for others, but I will say this is the only skill change in the ~6 months or so I've PvPed that I've found to be game breaking in terms of balance on 1 PvP map. So, I have voiced a desire to have it changed.

As a general rule of thumb I view skills and tactics along the lines of choices in a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors and if a skill counters many choices and has comparitively few available counters it is out of balance imo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
04-13-2011, 12:34 PM
IMHO, both sides are correct. But like Fox said, if an ability is overpowered in PvP, it surely is overkill in PvE. And it is true if you have a PvP build, doing Space on Elite is actually too easy (though ground is another matter).


I have suggested to Cryptic for a while now do like Everquest did in having two different values for abilities, where they were fair for both PvP and PvE. In which PvEers had full power to their abilities, while in PvP it was reduced to a mangable level with greater vulnerability to player resistances. And I honestly still feel Cryptic should adopt the same thing.

That way both sides can play without blaming the PvErs or the PvPers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
04-13-2011, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post


If Cryptic does nerf Beam Fire at Will then what skill do the PvPers want nerfed next?
This eludes to my belief that you feel PvP'ers are the one that ask for nerfs.
Having asked the question twice kinda sealed that belief to me.
Had you intended to cover the whole of the fanbase I would have expected "players" as the operable word used.
Plenty of PvE'ers have been a part of the call to nerf on things within STO, imo, sometimes rightly so sometimes due to missperceptions after trying PvP for the first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post

I'm simply asking a question: After Cryptic nerfs BFAW then what skill would the PvPers like nerfed next?

It's a simple question. Why can't anyone just answer it?
Its not a simple question as,
1) Nobody has any idea what ability will be broken next due to changes.
2) Its not a given that a PvPer will ask for the nerf.

As I gave the example before in the Carrier and the BoP, nerfs are asked often of those whom don't PvP on a regular basis and are misinformed or have skewed perceptions of an ability or situation in which an ability is used due to coming from the PvE side of the game that doesn't have the same "deadlyness" or mindset as a human player.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
04-13-2011, 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post
Where did I blame nerfing on just the PvPers?

It is true that there's been 137,482 threads complaining about BFAW and wanting it nerfed, all started by PvPers.

Before that it was 137,482 threads complaining about Cloaking Mines and Fighter spam.

Before that it I can't remember what it was that people wanted nerfed, but since this game has launched it's always been something. Since this game launched there's always been at least one thread about a particular power that "needs" to be nerfed, according to the PvPers.

And I'm not even saying that I disagree with you.

I'm simply asking a question: After Cryptic nerfs BFAW then what skill would the PvPers like nerfed next?

It's a simple question. Why can't anyone just answer it?
Yeah this got to be your first MMO. This common and them all, get use to it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
04-13-2011, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you, but you didn't answer my question.

If Cryptic does nerf Beam Fire at Will then what skill do the PvPers want nerfed next?
What you call a nerf is what we call a balance. Anything balanced in the PvP world balances the game in PvE world. I mean that is of course, if you like PvE to actually be a challenge. If you prefer to have PvE be a Snooze fest where you can get up from the computer, take a shower, make dinner, maybe go to the mall and then come back an collect your rewards then I would suggest another game. I mean really I truly believe people play games to relax and actually feel like they accomplished something separate from the grind of the day to day. Everything that has been "nerfed" has had little to effect on the game, ok so now it takes 2 seconds longer to kill a Mogai in a DSE, really did your gameplay revolve around mines so much you can't even handle the infantile AI in the game. If BFaW is the only thing that is allowing you to make it through that rough Borg DSE you really need to look at your build. If you want to be good in PvP well then you have to take your lumps like the rest of PvPers.
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