Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
04-14-2011, 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
While you are it make AF more efficient against beams only because for those of you that think it is a good counter against BFaW last night I was hit with AF3 6 times in a CnH and the DoT was ridiculously low I mean I was at 85% hull by the time I destroyed the ship that applied it. I am an escort running cannons. It does more damage to an escort because they fire more often.
Ok that saddens me to hear. I had more hope for AF against the BFAWboats.

As too SS being even larger in AoE, those last night in CnH would've been most upset by that.:p
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# 22
04-14-2011, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
While your testing seems sound it does little to to dispel the myth FaW is fine because of the scale of it. A total of 32 total beams spread across 3 targets is lets say 11 strikes on targets which is not too much more than a regular Beamboat. BFaW gets progressively OP'd the more ships have it equipped. I was in a CnH last night where there was a 10 man fed ball with 7 ships spamming fire at will everything with in 10 KM was getting smoked. A 3 v 2 is inaccurate and I hope you understand how the skill scales to OP'dness

While SS is great to counter now it just makes another broken skill a legitmate skill. Now I am seeing matches where when I am not be FaWked up I am scrambled more than an egg and would need more copies of ST then I could reasonably use.
While I had typed 3 v 2, or made it sound like that, that was actualy a mis-type. I just can't quite gets the audacity to ask the sec to ck my forums posts, yet. lol The match was 3 v 3. Again, 2 esorts - 1 sci v 2 beam boats - 1 escort. The escort on the team I was in, it seemed, I was killing the most due to SS. So bad, that I finaly asked him on TS to get out of my range.

My point being, there are active counters/tactics that can be used against a 5 or even 10 man "fed ball" FaW beam-boat team. I would imagine that the LOLzed would be just as pleasing watching them all kill off each other as a 1 shot kill would be.

In the 12th private last night, FaW was effectivly neutralized. It's certainly not unsurpassable. And to be perfectly honest, ANY pre-made using the same exact power would seem OP. I've been on the other side of that equation with 5-? man SV teams and it wasn't pretty.
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Posts: 120
# 23
04-14-2011, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Ok that saddens me to hear. I had more hope for AF against the BFAWboats.

As too SS being even larger in AoE, those last night in CnH would've been most upset by that.:p
Yeah Aceton field was always more of an anti-cannon weapon because it applies a DoT based on rate of fire. The 50% reduction of damage is meh because I think the math is off, when I was unbuffed the numbers were about 50% but when I buffed up it was only like 25%. Not to mention it is easily cleared with HE which almost every cruiser is running. to top it of AF3 is a skill that can only be gotten through a BOff.

There are very few skills an escort can use to combat BFaW even SS1 doesn't even do a good job of confusing a BFaW monkey boat. I do not recommend jam sensors unless you really hate your team mates.

The only ones I have seen to be effective is SNB, SS3, and PSW. 2 of 3 being only effective at high level. Dampening field is a joke against that much fire. So I guess we will be seeing a ALL BFaW teams and ALL SS teams in PvP now.

The funny little tidbit is the KDF side doesn't seem to have the prominence of BFaW teams, I am sure there are some but the majority are on the fed side, just saying.
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# 24
04-14-2011, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
I lol'ed. Does this mean FAW is broken?:p
I was, in fact, referring to the incredible skill set the user of our current BFAW demands. I mean, we aren't talking your average chimps here. We are talking about NASA chimps.
Lt. Commander
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# 25
04-14-2011, 07:31 PM
is it the same amount of skill needed to fly a carrier in pvp with 3 other friends who do no nothing but use energy syphon, Scorpion Fighters, reg pets and sci confuse skills? I wont throw the bop player under the buss for this one but the carriers are getting thrown under for sure.
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Posts: 120
# 26
04-14-2011, 07:38 PM
Less actually.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
04-14-2011, 11:55 PM
Great, so FaW has also a 100% Accuracy boost ignoring defense values.

Anything else?

Maybe BFaW should also SUMMON 5 NPC Dreadnoughts, you know, to counter SPAM a bit more...
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Posts: 120
# 28
04-15-2011, 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sithterror View Post
if that is true and you have bigred and others able to back it up with the parsing, then this should get PM'd and Tweeted as much as possible. Surely, having a BFAW with miss and lower accy hits wouldn't be as devasting then, no??
Okay, did some extensive testing on this in the past few days (ironically enough, we were actually testing other things, but the parser data came in quite handy, when looking for evidence of this)... The results were pretty startling...

1st Scenario: 2 v 2

Team A: 1 Tactical - Excelsior (TT1, FAW2, FAW3); 1 Science - Prometheus (Cannons/DBB/Torp, no FAW)

Team B: 1 Engineer - Star Cruiser (Healer); 1 Science - Prometheus (Cannons/DBB/Torp, no FAW)

2nd Scenario: 2 v 2

Team A: 1 Engineer - Excelsior (TT1, FAW2, FAW3); 1 Tactical - Fleet Escort (Cannons/DBB, no FAW)

Team B: 1 Engineer - Star Cruiser (Healer); 1 Science - Prometheus (Cannons/DBB/Torp, no FAW)

Both Excelsiors were running same Engineering power setups: (DEM3, EPS3, ASIF1 (Tac) ET2 (Eng), EPW1; RSP1, EPW1; EPS1)

Both Excelsiors were running 2 x DBB's and 6 x BA's (Phaser)

Testing was done in both Live Fire (both sides fighting to the fullest) and Data Generation (Excelsior attacking, teammate passive, watching Buff durations and benchmarking; opponents running full defensive suites, but not attacking)

Series of 5-minute tests, 10 rounds per setup.

Interesting Results (extrapolations, won't bore you with the 'extensive' raw numbers):
  • Strong possibility that FAW is ignoring the effects of ACC and DEF, observed 92-96% hit-rate while using FAW, which would fit within suspected parameters, as baseline Accuracy is 95%. This would also explain why it seems that Cloaked ships are so easily hit by FAW.
  • Overall damage output for the Excelsior was between 54-121% higher than for any of the Escorts.
  • Lower side of the damage output curve occured with no Captain-specific skills being applied; and yet, still were able to muster at least 54% greater damage output than an Escort.
  • Upper side of damage output curve occured with full skill usage, and, surprisingly, the Engineer was actually able to get the greater, overall output (likely due to the ability to sustain near-maximum weapon power for roughly 50% of the combat cycle.) Nadion Inversion for 30 seconds (2.5 minutes after expiration until triggered again, 2 uses per 5-minute test), then EPS Power Transfer for 30 seconds (1.5 minute recycle, 3 uses per 5 minute test.
  • Critical Hits appeared to be absent, as well, which may also have something to do with how FAW is generating its attacks (from re-reading the skill description, and observation of the data logs, it would seem that FAW is handled completely differently from all other attacks in-game).
  • In both cases, the excessive pressure damage from the doubled damage capacity of FAW ultimately exceeded the capacity of even a dedicated Healer to keep both of that team's members alive, particularly, once the second attacker was added to the mix.

Conclusions:
  • FAW definitely does not seem to be operating under normal firing parameters, particularly in terms of ACC vs. DEF
  • Combat observations validate concerns over excessive (read: obscene) increase in potential damage output; far out of line with comparable powers.
  • Greater benefit to damage output for non-Tactical Captains also is a significant concern.

If there are any questions, I will do my best to answer them.
-Big Red
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
04-15-2011, 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
I was, in fact, referring to the incredible skill set the user of our current BFAW demands. I mean, we aren't talking your average chimps here. We are talking about NASA chimps.
I know its deffinately opened up my ability to multitask while I power level an alt to LG. I can play STO, do my bills, answer emails, finally type that simian rendition of "Much Ado about Nothing" and complete several other small tasks all at the comfort of my desk.
And I'm just running a single copy of BFAW2 combo'ed with BOL1 on a carrier.

I won't say its OP, but it does make gaming life simplier. :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by opzulu View Post
is it the same amount of skill needed to fly a carrier in pvp with 3 other friends who do no nothing but use energy syphon, Scorpion Fighters, reg pets and sci confuse skills? I wont throw the bop player under the buss for this one but the carriers are getting thrown under for sure.
Thrown under the bus how? I don't ask out of sarcasm but out of curiuosity on something I may not see clearly. Rebuffing the Vov carrier to its "buffed" glory was another idea that I've heard of that may counter the FAW cruiser teams.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
04-15-2011, 05:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
Yeah Aceton field was always more of an anti-cannon weapon because it applies a DoT based on rate of fire. The 50% reduction of damage is meh because I think the math is off, when I was unbuffed the numbers were about 50% but when I buffed up it was only like 25%. Not to mention it is easily cleared with HE which almost every cruiser is running. to top it of AF3 is a skill that can only be gotten through a BOff.

There are very few skills an escort can use to combat BFaW even SS1 doesn't even do a good job of confusing a BFaW monkey boat. I do not recommend jam sensors unless you really hate your team mates.

The only ones I have seen to be effective is SNB, SS3, and PSW. 2 of 3 being only effective at high level. Dampening field is a joke against that much fire. So I guess we will be seeing a ALL BFaW teams and ALL SS teams in PvP now.

The funny little tidbit is the KDF side doesn't seem to have the prominence of BFaW teams, I am sure there are some but the majority are on the fed side, just saying.
I was hoping that the higher rate of fire demostrated by BFAW would've made AF more effective against it.

AF3 is BOff only, that explains why those BOff sold so quickly. AF3 is the power most often seen on my engie BOffs I get as rewards.

I agree it is most often seen on the feds, mainly due to them being heavy in cruiser/beam use I would think., the ease at which a cruiser team can effectively use FAW and cross heal and its really good effects in PvE. As the KDF is more cannons with vessel designs that allow thier use, it is seen less.
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