Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
04-15-2011, 01:03 PM
@BigRed
That is a lot more testing than i can get done, glad to see more data on it. I am curious that the parsing i do in game always shows me that FAW doesn't miss, is that a limit on my parser or is there something more i haven't reproduced or induced?
I imagined that the Engy would have better dps stats over the course of the fight and the TAC would have better spike DPS due to skills. Does GDF, Tac Init and AP-A 3 spike and give a run for the Engy's money using EPS, Nadion and the same tac-engy abilities?
The composition of teams....team 1 has a sci-scort (?) and then scenarios 2 team 1 gets a TAC fleet escort. Did this change damage #'s since SNB and FOMM/AP-A 3 with the escort alphas?

On another note....Roach. His tag isn't blue, Avatar is gone and banned. Is this inferring he is leaving for a bit?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
04-15-2011, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sithterror View Post
On another note....Roach. His tag isn't blue, Avatar is gone and banned. Is this inferring he is leaving for a bit?
We have to infer this. I don't even know what he did wrong. Of course, we aren't to discuss such things either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
04-15-2011, 11:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sithterror View Post
@BigRed
That is a lot more testing than i can get done, glad to see more data on it. I am curious that the parsing i do in game always shows me that FAW doesn't miss, is that a limit on my parser or is there something more i haven't reproduced or induced?
I imagined that the Engy would have better dps stats over the course of the fight and the TAC would have better spike DPS due to skills. Does GDF, Tac Init and AP-A 3 spike and give a run for the Engy's money using EPS, Nadion and the same tac-engy abilities?
The composition of teams....team 1 has a sci-scort (?) and then scenarios 2 team 1 gets a TAC fleet escort. Did this change damage #'s since SNB and FOMM/AP-A 3 with the escort alphas?

On another note....Roach. His tag isn't blue, Avatar is gone and banned. Is this inferring he is leaving for a bit?
The mixed team compositions mostly came down to the people I had available to do the tests, and their willingness to participate for the hour-long+ testing sessions.

It actually worked out okay by setting some limits on ability usage. For Test 1, I had the Sci Captain dial his Aux down to where his Sensor Scan was only getting about -45 or -50 Damage Resistance, and forbade the use of SNB for the recorded portion of the tests. Test 2 had the Tactical using FoMM, which is roughly comparable to the Sensor Scan, so I felt that the overall results would be pretty similar (FoMM lasts 2x as long on a single target, while Sensor Scan was able to cover both targets, therefore yielding roughly the same modified damage output.)

Went back and look at my numbers from the 1st 30- and 60-second segments of the fight (assuming that each side would maximize their skill usage early on in the fight). For the 1st 30-second segment, the Tac/Cruiser showed substantially higher damage output, tapering off quickly as APA wore off; on the other hand, the Eng/Cruiser showed substantially higher sustained damage for the full 60-second segment (EPS-PT for the 1st 30, NI for the 2nd 30, damage was considerably higher with NI than with EPS-PT) and was able to maintain higher, overall damage output due to fewer down-time gaps. In the test numbers, the results indicate that for the Tactical, there are two 60-second gaps between optimal skill spikes in a 5-minute match, while for the Engineer, there are three 30-second gaps... These results further reinforce the importance of power management in relation to overall damage output, even in place of damage-boosting capability.

Interesting side note: During the 'controlled' tests, wherein the non-FAW team was strictly running in maximum defensive mode, the overall damage output was 10-15% lower than in the free-for-all test... A lesson that we all could learn about remembering to protect ourselves in combat, probably due to not missing cooldown cycles and optimizing the implemenation of available defensive skills.

As far as seeing how often you miss (or, in this case, how often you 'don't' miss ), part of it may be due to the sample size, if the power really 'is' using the base Accuracy calculation (95% hit rate), even a sample of 200-300 shots may not see many (or any) misses... In my tests, for example, a 5-minute match with maximized up-time on a 6-8 Beam Cruiser, there will be 3200-3600 FAW shots to sample (and I still saw those 92-96% hit rates, MUCH higher than my non-FAW numbers, to be sure). Part of it may be the parsing, some parsing programs disregard Misses (or don't recognize the combatlogging feature that records misses as a "0 damage" result), but it is more likely due to sample size.

-Big Red
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
04-16-2011, 12:06 AM
As far as the 2v2 scenarios went, I wanted a situation where FAW's damage output was optimized, just to be able to have hard numbers to verify the 'optimal' situation, but didn't want a single Cruiser to be stuck against 2 enemy Escorts (especially skilled ones), even with FAW's superior firepower, so I added the second Escort to the Cruiser's team.

I also was able to set the parsing parameters to disregard the Cruiser-team Escort's damage, so the final results were only from the FAW-using Cruiser.

Hope that clarifies better,

-Big Red
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
04-16-2011, 12:19 PM
Thanks for responding.
Gives more 'behind the scenes' to how the quantified results stack up.

Quote:
Interesting side note: During the 'controlled' tests, wherein the non-FAW team was strictly running in maximum defensive mode, the overall damage output was 10-15% lower than in the free-for-all test... A lesson that we all could learn about remembering to protect ourselves in combat, probably due to not missing cool down cycles and optimizing the implementation of available defensive skills.
Defensive mode? full shields and aux? defense powers before offense powers? 10-15% seems real small especially since wep were most under 100 power versus the FFA, right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
04-16-2011, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sithterror View Post
Thanks for responding.
Gives more 'behind the scenes' to how the quantified results stack up.


Defensive mode? full shields and aux? defense powers before offense powers? 10-15% seems real small especially since wep were most under 100 power versus the FFA, right?
Strictly use of defensive powers and piloting, not attacking or worrying about offensive skills (with the exception of one of the target Escorts did have 1 copy of APD, the other had APO), but leaving power settings as those captains normally kept them. (Each set of 10 test matches, the final 2 were done in the 'defensive mode'.)

Skills used (off the top of my head, and not all from the same ships) :

Tactical:
  • Tactical Team
  • Attack Pattern Omega
  • Attack Pattern Delta

Science:
  • Transfer Shield Strength
  • Science Team
  • Hazard Emitters
  • Polarize Hull

Engineering:
  • Emergency Power to Shields
  • Auxiliary to the Structural Integrity Field
  • Engineering Team
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
04-17-2011, 08:15 PM
thanks for the replies everyone.

I definitely know FAW ignores defence values, because when fighting fighters, every shot hits. Normally, with my +15% accuracy, I have around 60% hits.

I have never seen FAW miss, though I admit I may have missed it.

Also, FAW does crit, but does not record it as such.
normally I hit for 550-650 per shot on FAW, but I occasionally get 1.2-1.3k, though it lists it as a normal hit instead of a crit.

Is it possible that FAW ignores defence values, but not accuracy values? because the +15% could add to the inherent 95% and result in a +100% accuracy, if it ignored defence.
I don't know for sure, but as I have been watching for FAW to miss for the past week or two and never found a single miss, So thats my theory. Thoughts?
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
04-18-2011, 07:54 AM
Just a reminder of the numbers we got from parsing FAW vs. no-FAW in O13.

FAW against single target. 110-150% DPS compared to non-FAW

(this matches +bonusdamage, +accuracy, -powerdrain)


FAW agains multiple targets- 200-300% DPS compared to non-FAW

(double number of beams compared to single target. slightly increased powerdrain)


These are numbers of actual damage applied to target. Nothing to be added or subtracted.
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