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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Hello Ladies and Gents.

When I say "BvB", I'm referring to "Beam Versus Beam"

I did PvP for the first time last night and I must say it was fun. I won some, lost some, but no matter what, fun was had by all.

What I DID notice was the unintended consequences of making Beam:Fire at Will the de facto must-have for Cruisers and Sci vessels. Heck, I even saw a couple of Escorts converted to beam boats!

This isn't me saying "OMG U Need to NeRfzorz!!!11!!". What it is saying is that the abundant use of B:FaW has made certain weapons even more useless than they were in the past.

Mines: used to be able to last a sec or two, now are gone immedeatly. So quick in fact I doubt the computer even bothers to render them. HY torps (Plasma, Tricobalts) are now useless. In fact, I have a distinct feeling normal Plasma torps are being shot down as well, as I did not ONCE see the graphic of a non HY plasma torp land. I'll have to check the logs to confirm.

I'm a vetran player. I read the forums and everything I'm saying here has already been noticed talked about for some time. What I can say is this: Between FaW spam and MVAM spam, it got kinda...well, boring. Yes I could counter, yes I need to change my loadout for PvP. But if the PvP community is to grow, it needs to be a tad bit easier for newbies coming in. They shouldn't have to do a total respec and change all their weps and BoFFs jsut to kill a meatbag.

Am I saying put on kiddie gloves? No. But there has to be a happy medium while not perfect, makes everyone happy. Because I really don't think I'll be BvBing for a bit.


Again - I've been playing this game since Beta, and yes; I'm fully aware that PvE and PvP aren't the same. But the differences shouldn't be soooo different that it discourages the casual gamer.


Just my $.02
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-12-2011, 01:08 PM
Welcome. PvP in this game can be great. The mechanics are fantatic and when two evenly matched teams meet up it can be a blast. Yes you are coming in with a few broken mechanics in game right now. Its possible to still have fun, however it can sometimes be somewhat silly too. Many of us "long time" pvpers are sensitive to skill imbalanced through lots and lots of use. Stick with it and by all means ask in the forums for advice on your build if you want some honest help. There are many here who will offer you very good advise, some not so much, still it will help.

As far as PvE and PvP being so diffrent, understand that no mmo will find a balance that way. What you will find is your PvP build is going to OWN PvE. lol
The first 2 months of this game I mainly did PvE... after a month of trial by fire PvP My build was honed and honestly before the PvE Difficulty slider it was mind numbingly dumb after I had my ships PvP tuned.

Thanks for the insight, I'm glad to hear that a new guy queing up isn't 100% for sure going to be turned off and never que with us again. I hope to see you in game, be a humble student and try to learn from each match and you will get good at this.... and honestly ya have fun, its a game. Thanks, again Welcome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-12-2011, 01:13 PM
Well you can't expect a scripted AI to be as smart and unpredictable as a human player. PvE will always be easier than PVP, in ANY game.

With STO the problem is the game isn't quite self-explanatory. You need to rely on external sources to learn its mechanics well enough to be effective against another player.

Another problem is that most PvE is "single player with online chatty friends". You are neither forced nor encouraged to team up with others in order to beat the game (STFs aside).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-12-2011, 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Thy View Post
Another problem is that most PvE is "single player with online chatty friends". You are neither forced nor encouraged to team up with others in order to beat the game (STFs aside).
I am willing to bet besides KA's space part and cure's ground most PvPers could solo STFs
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-12-2011, 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
I am willing to bet besides KA's space part and cure's ground most PvPers could solo STFs
Probably

I've run a lot of STFs with my fleet's PvP Team and the space part is always a walk.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-12-2011, 10:14 PM
My suggestion would be to level up a KDF character for PvP. I say this not b/c KDF is any better than Fed, but rather the BoP and its univeral slots allow for trying a variety of skills and combinations and the resulting flexibility leads to respecing less often. After awhile you'll have a better idea of what works or not (not to mention what's fun for you) and be able to tune your Fed side character for PvP with a more solid foundation of understanding. That said until abilities items/stabilize for a bit you'll find youself respecing w/every patch or avoiding certain PvP maps which magnify the current OP skill.

On the FaW issue, the best way I've found I can describe my problem with it is as follows:

Think of a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Now add a dozen more choices to it. Later say Rock beats those dozen choices at times before you even declare what your choice was. You are now back to the original Rock, Paper, Scissors.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-12-2011, 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Thy View Post
Well you can't expect a scripted AI to be as smart and unpredictable as a human player. PvE will always be easier than PVP, in ANY game.

With STO the problem is the game isn't quite self-explanatory. You need to rely on external sources to learn its mechanics well enough to be effective against another player.

Another problem is that most PvE is "single player with online chatty friends". You are neither forced nor encouraged to team up with others in order to beat the game (STFs aside).
All sadly very true points. The fact that I need a 3rd-party Wiki to give me more data than the developer is shady at best, incompetent at worst and bad business no matter what. My personal problem is that B:FaW is so über now that it is pretty much a must-have. Yes, I know there are counters, and yes - it doesn't *break* PvP (BvB) per se, but it does make it monotonous and kinda silly when it is simply people just flying in circles spamming it. This is not to mention the ALL MVAM team I was (un)lucky enough to run into....all spaming B:FaW.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-13-2011, 12:09 AM
Welcome to PvP sir.

This thread is EXACTLY the sort of thing I was hoping to see, and is why the groups I run in have been asking for people to post here in zone.

Whilst the insights of the Ridcully's, Husanaks' and Big Reds etc etc.... of this world make informed posts on all manner of things PvP, everyone knows them. The guy who 'just walked in the room' just nailed it.

I'm hoping the more feedback - the quicker the fix.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-13-2011, 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Black_Man
[Cut]
My advice is: just stay away from PvP for some time and focus on capping your Alts. In PvE the New FaW is a free leveling boost.

It's so OP that some days ago I just rammed into a Flagship group (Deep space enemy encounter) and utterly destroyed them ALONE with just 2 copies of FaW and some limited healing/tanking (Commander Cruiser). And they were +1 enemies LOL!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-13-2011, 07:12 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Black_Man
I'm a vetran player. I read the forums and everything I'm saying here has already been noticed talked about for some time. What I can say is this: Between FaW spam and MVAM spam, it got kinda...well, boring. Yes I could counter, yes I need to change my loadout for PvP. But if the PvP community is to grow, it needs to be a tad bit easier for newbies coming in. They shouldn't have to do a total respec and change all their weps and BoFFs jsut to kill a meatbag.
Glad you had fun in PvP. Welcome.

Yeppers, FAW now handles that pesky spam so well it might as well not even exist.

As the the respecing, Its shouldn't eb needed, I can agree on that.
Unfortunately for the new players coming into pvp the respec is probalbly recomended to keep up with the learning curve of PvP and remain competitive.
Most older experienced PvP have done a respec to streamline thier builds to maximize thier effectivness and get rid of fluff skills that have no purpose to them. Also unfortunate is the FOTM usually means if one wishes to directly counter one may ahve to respec to adjust to new abilities.
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