Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
04-23-2011, 08:20 AM
From a purely technical standpoint, it might be very difficult to tell such a story. I was given a 1 star review for inventing a Ferengi Transporter Chief. "I don't remember having that guy on my crew- 1 Star". Lol. Imagine a gaseous Engineer. People get upset if their uniforms don't match, or if you give their BO's personality.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
04-23-2011, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.PFDennis
From a purely technical standpoint, it might be very difficult to tell such a story. I was given a 1 star review for inventing a Ferengi Transporter Chief. "I don't remember having that guy on my crew- 1 Star". Lol. Imagine a gaseous Engineer. People get upset if their uniforms don't match, or if you give their BO's personality.
Again, why I'd introduce it as part of an NPC crew. :-)
Lt. Commander
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# 23
04-23-2011, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
My reading of the pitch is that all the races were essentially made into complete caricatures and clowns.

Star Trek wasn't written to promote libertarian capitalism. The whole direction they were going with the Federation faltering because it was cashless and the Ferengi doing well because they were hyper-capitalist runs against the entire philosophy behind ST. And that's just one example.

The guys making the pitch don't have to like ST, but then they shouldn't even be entertaining the idea of making a show based on it. Actually, I'd say it's a stretch to say that concept was even based on ST. It's got races that look the same, but otherwise it's pretty much just thrown everything out. It's not even a reboot, it's a complete rewrite.
I would disagree.

I think it's a great idea to show a temporary set of circumstances, to show Star Trek's ideologies failing and greed prospering so long as that's being setup as a conflict, something that's horrific.

I'd go one further and say I think that could be the perfect way to reintroduce the Ferengi as true villains.

They were weak as a physical antagonist in TNG. Their system was played for laughs frequently on DS9 and even Voyager.

But what happens if their system seems to work? I think that's a great analogy for where we are today, given levels of corporate corruption and the impunity with which many large corporations operate. "Too big to fail."

The Ferengi win. Altruism fails. Virtue for its own sake and exploration become ideas that are stuck on life support. The Federation falters.

The lesson is not that the Federation is inferior but how it proves its worth in an era when good seems incapable of winning and greed seems like its ahead. That's how you put the ideals to the test, by showing its better even if the people who oppose those ideals seem to win and the people who support those ideas are marginalized.
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# 24
04-23-2011, 08:51 AM
In short, the setting at the beginning of a story should probably contrast with the lesson you want to teach. It happens that way in individual Trek episodes, usually, and I'd expand that to the core setting if I was looking at doing a totally serialized Trek in the vein of Lost or BSG.

Plus, you just know that we'd eventually find out half a dozen ways the Ferengi are cheating. They're probably backed by a mysterious dark power and exploiting a race of powerful beings and using time travel to inflate their resources relative to everyone else's.
Lt. Commander
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# 25
04-23-2011, 09:02 AM
I read the treatment and didn't care for it too much. I think maybe 600 years further out is a bit too far and I think including a Kirk is just a shade cheesy. Federation in decline is a good source for story material, but isn't really something I'd be interested in watching.

If someone makes a foundry series out of this, I'll try it. Maybe it'll be more appealing to me once I can see it played out.
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# 26
04-23-2011, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leirus
Agreed and signed.
But even in the beginning Captain Picard, e.g., was a mature, mentally stable character. Which is what I would expect of the captain. He did evolve, as did all the rest.

But he didn't start out as a reckless boyscout (even though he was one in the past, as we learn in TNG).
The last thing I would want to see is another kindergarten as in a certain recent "Star Trek" labelled movie.
I think characterizing Kirk as a reckless boyscout is ... wrong. I am in the process of rewatching TOS, and Kirk doesn't appear to be a boyscout at all. He is also a mature, mentally stable character. But he is different from Picard. He is certainly more aggressive then Picard and less diplomatic.
Picard was shown to be bad with children, only able to deal with the by treating them like fellow officers - Kirk was above that. Not only did he deal with a superpowered child, he did so assuming a strong fatherly, authoritan rule. Kirk is more a man of decision then Picard was, but he is very much in control of himself and his emotions.

He is certainly not without flaws - it is kinda amusing to see him argue together with Kor for the "right to wage a war he didn't want fight in the first place", and his desire for revenge for the loss of a Federation colony to the Gorn almost let him forgot the other's side perspective. But all that make him more believable and relatable then Picard, actually. The Starfleet and Federation in TOS and TNG are different, and so are the Captains.
Lt. Commander
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1st Hi guys did you miss me? lol All I can say is, may kids killed my old account, and I have not been active in STO for a bit now. What happened? They ran up a 300 plus bill on me, and to fix it I had to kill my account. BIG WOOP! All that hard work gone, oh well. One of these days I will get back into the captain's chair.

Anyway, when I was over at SyFy I ran into something interesting. It's a pitch for a new TV Trek Show, but it was turned down. The Script was from Bryan Singer, and it was titled Star Trek: Federation.

IThe Pitch mainly went like this:

Earth's Humans have become "fat and happy" but this has led to complacency where humans are "giving up exploration for incremental colonization and focusing more on the rightness of their own cultural view over all others"
Many younger members of the UFP have left, eschewing this "human-centric" Federation

Vulcans have been disengaging from the Federation and have reunified with the Romulans, spending most of the last 3 centuries focused on creating a new "joined society" overseen by two "quasi-religious clerics who rule according to logic and what is best for their unified peoples, combining Romulan Machiavellian politics with Vulcan logic.

Bajorans have withdrawn from the Federation to become insular in order to focus on their religion and communing with the Prophets. Bajor is now "like a planet sized Tibet", handing over all temporal concerns to the Ferengi

The Klingons have undergone a "massive reformation" moving away from their Viking-like brawling to become a "civilization of warrior mystics" akin to the Tang Dynasty), now flying "sleek" and "serene" ships and while they maintain diplomacy with the Federation they have returned to expanding the Empire via conquest

The Cardassians have transformed into a "society of artists and philosophers" who now "walk the path" and are now dedicated to a philosophy with "the view of the galaxy as a place created solely to test the faithful."

The Ferengi are no longer a "joke" but have become "quite powerful". Equality for females (including a female Nagus) is "the only concession they have made to progress" and with "the Greater Federation's cashless society as a restriction, the Ferengi Alliance is now able to shine in its full capitalist glory." The Ferengi are also making big bucks marketing the Bajoran religion around the galaxy, including pilgrimages to the Bajoran Wormhole.

Starfleet has been reduced to a "mere peace-keeping force" protecting fringe worlds from aliens and from fighting each other, with starships are old and spread out too thin.


Star Trek: Federation would have also featured a brand-new, powerful and totally ruthless alien menace called "The Scourge" and would have featured an "incident" involving a Federation ship, the U.S.S. Sojourn, which would have jump-started the proposed series.

Lieutenant Commander Alexander Kirk is the only survivor of the "Sojourner Incident," as it's come to be known in the press. And he has no clear memory of the events themselves. Attempts to "help" him remember cause him to become irrational and violent. All he has is images of carnage and death and a hidden malevolent presence lurking behind it all. When called before his superiors, he paints a picture of the enemy that is scarcely believed and which, if true, might tip the already fracturing Federation Alliance into true collapse.


Well liked it in some parts, but the idea of the Federation being a shadow of it's former self I didn't like. Maybe if he pitched that part differently, it would have sold them. Oh well, anyone have a different idea?

To read more about this, follow the link.

http://trekmovie.com/2011/04/16/excl...ries-proposal/
Lt. Commander
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# 28
04-25-2011, 10:52 AM
Star Trek just won't work in today's entertainment fads.

Let's look at the success it's had in the past: The original series and Next Generation were both about an ideal human future. All the vices of humanity had be set aside, instead being viewed as the quirks of alien races. Mankind could be proud to be mankind. These two series defined Trek for most, everything else may be compared to them. Later shows got darker as the entertainment trend tended that way.

Could you imagine this working today? A new SciFi show coming on where the characters weren't seriously flawed and the plot not overwhelmingly grim? I do not want a new Trek now. I'm happy to wait until the trend goes away from "we're all doomed, let's cry about it".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
04-25-2011, 11:08 AM
Well like that movie, it needs to adjust the message a bit, and it can work. IMO I think they could do a few mini-series, and see where it goes from there. That way you can do a few extended TV moives, while seeing how you want to go forward with the product. It wouldn't have a series, but it still would be Trek in a different form.
Lt. Commander
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# 30
04-25-2011, 11:17 AM
I agree with Hort. The whole we are doomed thing was played out in the BSG reworking. I liked the idea of Enterprise until it turned into a "we need revenge" show. I would rather see a Klingon series or a show that recaptures the "Morality Plays" that Gene was trying for. Something new with something old kind of feel would be good. Not a rehash of old content mind you, but a rebirth of an old idea.
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