Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 121
04-26-2011, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Honestly its the swarms of mines that led us to the FAW issue to begin with. Beyond that fact that the only reason to drop 32 mines a go is to annoy people...
Thats the point, i do it to do some unexpected dmg, and for the WTF moment. Its a weapon meant to be used. You speak about people who just spawn them for fun all over. And 32 transhpasic mines is not that bad. I'm just trying to maximize the performance.

The difference between mine and torpedo is that you cannot time the mine as torp. So the mine should do a LOT more dmg than the torpedo.

I would just cloak them on tribble for the start and see how it goes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 122
04-26-2011, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
They never said they 'can't fix it' - whhat they've said is "No, their not rolling the change back while they consider a more permanent solution." Very big difference.
Thanks chief, but I specifically said "right now" because as of this moment, right now, they "can't even fix this single instance of FAW".

Quote:
As for "Just do it right the first time" - either you're new to MMO PvP or you're just jumping on the "Cryptic are bad at PvP development bandwagon." Assuming you have played PvP in other MMOs - please name me one that got all their abilities 'right the first time.'
I'm just saying that putting more testing into things, and actually listening to tribble feedback before releasing something, would be beneficial. Regardless of past experience between either you or myself, doesn't that sound somewhat logical? Isn't it better to get something as close to perfect as possible rather than releasing buggy or broken skills?

My reading comprehension is fine. I'll try to be more clear for you in the future.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 123
04-26-2011, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Thats the point, i do it to do some unexpected dmg, and for the WTF moment. Its a weapon meant to be used. You speak about people who just spawn them for fun all over. And 32 transhpasic mines is not that bad. I'm just trying to maximize the performance.

The difference between mine and torpedo is that you cannot time the mine as torp. So the mine should do a LOT more dmg than the torpedo.

I would just cloak them on tribble for the start and see how it goes.
Just cloaking them does not fix the server lag issue. Yes the local client doesn't have to draw every single one, however the server still has to track them. It would help but not really address the core issue IMHO anyway.
Just cloaking our current mines would help the targeting issues for sure.
However it really wouldn't address teams pretty much scoring lag wins... at least I don't think. I would be all for a tribble test... of course if it gets to tribble it goes live regardless, Cryptic has proven that already. lol

I kind of like the idea of one powerful mine getting dropped at a time.... it might be asking for issues but changing procs to scale would be nice as well. One of my HUGE pet pevs with the mine spam and mine patterns right now is they are a 100% guaranteed proc right now, lets take say everyones fav Chrono mines....

Use a simple probability formula;
1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y )
5 Mines = 41% chance to proc
12 mines = 72% chance to proc
16 mines = 82% chance to proc

This is one of the many silly mechanics that Cryptic just doesn't seem to understand about their own engine.

Honestly Chrono torps suck... but the mines are overpowered in regards to proc effect. Like Trics it would be nice if point spend ment something to proc chance.

With say a 5% chance with no point spend it would mean a spread of 16 would only have a 55% chance to proc.... its easy to hate math. (Honestly the number would have to be around a 2% chance to even drop that total proc chance under 20% lol)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 124
04-26-2011, 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
I play PvE when I want to be put to sleep, or when I absolutely have to. (leveling)

The computer might as well not even be fighting back when you can just Balance Mk6 shields while being Rear Admiral, set your weapon power to 100, and Space Bar your way through npcs without even losing a shield facing.

I really can't see how anyone can complain about PvE being ruined by pvp when you don't even need your abilities or anything even resembling proper gear for your level to beat it handedly.
I like one shotting/crippling cubes in foundry missions after my bridge officers build up how IT'S THE BORG, THEY IS POWERFUL.

PVE is a joke unless a: you're outnumbered 10 to 1 (actually, 10 probes doesn't sound hard to kill) or b: each ship has 3x your hull and shield integrity (Cruisers on elite mode).


PS: broadsiding Mogai Escorts are doinitright
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 125
04-26-2011, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Just cloaking them does not fix the server lag issue. Yes the local client doesn't have to draw every single one, however the server still has to track them. It would help but not really address the core issue IMHO anyway.
Just cloaking our current mines would help the targeting issues for sure.
However it really wouldn't address teams pretty much scoring lag wins... at least I don't think. I would be all for a tribble test... of course if it gets to tribble it goes live regardless, Cryptic has proven that already. lol

I kind of like the idea of one powerful mine getting dropped at a time.... it might be asking for issues but changing procs to scale would be nice as well. One of my HUGE pet pevs with the mine spam and mine patterns right now is they are a 100% guaranteed proc right now, lets take say everyones fav Chrono mines....

Use a simple probability formula;
1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y )
5 Mines = 41% chance to proc
12 mines = 72% chance to proc
16 mines = 82% chance to proc

This is one of the many silly mechanics that Cryptic just doesn't seem to understand about their own engine.

Honestly Chrono torps suck... but the mines are overpowered in regards to proc effect. Like Trics it would be nice if point spend ment something to proc chance.

With say a 5% chance with no point spend it would mean a spread of 16 would only have a 55% chance to proc.... its easy to hate math. (Honestly the number would have to be around a 2% chance to even drop that total proc chance under 20% lol)
husanak i can not argue with your math but you set up the equation containing inappropriate data. will one be hit by 16 mines often?

i am rarely hit by 5 (unless otherwise held/disabled)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 126
04-26-2011, 09:25 PM
Somebody scared the Scorpion Fighters Dude

I really wanted to know what kind of "game style" he was referring to!

U smelly PvP Elitists!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 127
04-26-2011, 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmoeJoe
husanak i can not argue with your math but you set up the equation containing inappropriate data. will one be hit by 16 mines often?

i am rarely hit by 5 (unless otherwise held/disabled)
Yeh, not to speak about fact that FAW currently destroys most attempt of serious minelaying. I dont like the idea of one single mine drop, i like the nets, they could be wider tho
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 128
04-26-2011, 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmoeJoe
husanak i can not argue with your math but you set up the equation containing inappropriate data. will one be hit by 16 mines often?

i am rarely hit by 5 (unless otherwise held/disabled)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Yeh, not to speak about fact that FAW currently destroys most attempt of serious minelaying. I dont like the idea of one single mine drop, i like the nets, they could be wider tho
The math was only to show the reason the procs are so out of wack on mines. They drop in bunches of 5 which gives them a much higher chance to proc then a torpedo, with mine patterns or multiple ships dropping them... yes they where / sort of are (thanks to faw) going to proc.

No Faw has broke mines and all kinds of spam. It is way way too good at spam removal. However it wasn't long ago before broken faw that the goof team du jour involved a thousand and one chrono mines... that math is one of the reasons it was so effective. Run through a cluster and have your defense values removed almost 100% of the time.

Before they made any change to mines involving one out... faw would need to be corrected of course. The mines would also HAVE to have a cloak / stealth rating, to make it work. Faw and csv can not target cloaked targets (or are not supposed to anyway) so the one out mine would be pretty survivable. Forcing a team to use a sensor scan to remove mines could help make mines a more intresting weapon tactically, as opposed to the spam it and forget it weapon it pretty much is now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 129
04-27-2011, 12:05 AM
Well, mine launcher could drop 1 mine, and patterns could increase it up to 7 i think. 1,3,5,7 , that would cut the spam a little. But the dmg would require to be roughly doubled. And of course they would need to arm faster, have longer range and move a LOT faster.

But again, you look on this only from the chroniton mine perspective. That's not problem of mines, but proc effect of chroniton mines. Don't confuse that.

Beside,cloaked mines is interesting concept. You could make them visible with charged particle burst and such. Tachyon grid from nebula would have more use.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 130
04-27-2011, 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokikami View Post
i'd suggest removing bfaw untill it can be fixed because right now its a pvp game breaking mechanic and honestly thats a HUGE problem with a game that has almost nothing else to do at max lvl.
will you retrain my officers that use it?
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