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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Any guesses as to the changes that will be made, and how it will affect the feasibility of melee weapons?
in the current system, no matter how much dmg you do in melee, you get vaporized before you get to the target, or get more than a couple hits on them, will the new system make melee combatants actually stand a chance?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-20-2011, 11:58 AM
I think the big change is the crouch mode allowing more of FPS feel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-20-2011, 01:50 PM
I hope that to make melee weapons more viable is having melee weapons have an interupt capability that stuns players when they have guns equipped or trying to use their kits.

And that you can't fight with guns in close proximity.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-20-2011, 03:39 PM
I think they're a few issues with melee in PvP.

1. Unlike PvE in PvP you can't have someone equiped to fully take advantage of various skills from various classes. For example, I can have 3 SD hyposprays/Boff in Pve, yet in PvP it's at best 1/teammate.

2. A character seems to move as fast back peddling as the attacker does going forward and most melee attacks require the attacker to stop moving.

3. Most of the holds/disables/slow can't be chained anymore.

4. Cloak's reduction in effectiveness.

All of this adds up to doing at best 1 combo vs another player before they get free, and it's not close to the alpha a captain can achieve in PvE when it is applied. This also assumes you get in range alive through all the engineer/tac spam.

At low levels it's not so bad, but w/spam etc increases at higher levels it's not really feasible and I haven't read anything that says it's going to change in the next upgrade.

That said, if you're going to melee in PvP I suggest trying out a premade with something like at least two Sci Physicians Supporting one or two TAC captains w/SP invested in appropriate skills (the SD hypos stack and nanite monitor heals and clears exposes, vascular regen has nice heal as well). Have one or 2 captains set up for exposes and disables/debuffs.

Oh and use the sword (it's the fastest and has nice AoE exploit if your opponents happen to group together).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-20-2011, 09:54 PM
I have no problem getting the enemy down to less than half health with melee, but a single sniper shot will blow me away and end it before i can finish them off. this usually happens with tactical captains, i just think the 1 shot capacity should be restricted to exploits, might make it more feasible. perhaps an innate energy damage resistance when using melee, or interrupts, like a 20% chance of hold when attacking, just something so i can survive long enough to finish the job.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-21-2011, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamid
I think they're a few issues with melee in PvP.

1. Unlike PvE in PvP you can't have someone equiped to fully take advantage of various skills from various classes. For example, I can have 3 SD hyposprays/Boff in Pve, yet in PvP it's at best 1/teammate.

2. A character seems to move as fast back peddling as the attacker does going forward and most melee attacks require the attacker to stop moving.

3. Most of the holds/disables/slow can't be chained anymore.

4. Cloak's reduction in effectiveness.

All of this adds up to doing at best 1 combo vs another player before they get free, and it's not close to the alpha a captain can achieve in PvE when it is applied. This also assumes you get in range alive through all the engineer/tac spam.

At low levels it's not so bad, but w/spam etc increases at higher levels it's not really feasible and I haven't read anything that says it's going to change in the next upgrade.

That said, if you're going to melee in PvP I suggest trying out a premade with something like at least two Sci Physicians Supporting one or two TAC captains w/SP invested in appropriate skills (the SD hypos stack and nanite monitor heals and clears exposes, vascular regen has nice heal as well). Have one or 2 captains set up for exposes and disables/debuffs.

Oh and use the sword (it's the fastest and has nice AoE exploit if your opponents happen to group together).
I've been having a blast with my sword Tac, but she's only a captain right now. Between Pounce, Lunge, and the gap-closing sprint that swords automatically get, that toon sticks on targets *very* well. 1-1 I generally beat most opponents (at captain rank mind you; I'm not going to swear to what it's like at VA because my melee character is not that high yet) but I need to be very patient and wait for the right time to advance when fighting teams.

My sword Tac's bane are double-rifle Tac's -- being in melee makes it hard to evade the enemy team, and a double-rifle Tac will vaporize you in 5 seconds if you can't get behind cover.

#1 is a big problem. Melee damage is prone to more min-maxing than any other type, but in PvP you are unlikely to have all of the tools for maxing it out. By contrast, rifle damage can be buffed to the point that one lucky shot from behind *might* drop an opponent, and it's pretty easy to build a character to kill with back-to-back exploits. I'm not sure whether it's melee or ranged that is the problem, but there is too much of a gap in practice.

#2 isn't a problem with swords, but might be too much of a problem with other melee weapons.

#3 doesn't bother me at all. When the chains/stuns/slows could be chained it was pretty silly. Against most players, just being in melee range and darting around is a sort of CC since Rifle Butt and Palm Strike don't automatically face them towards their enemy.

#4 doesn't bother me because I'm using swords. I can plink away with my pistol and then charge from 20 yards away when the time is right.

If I were to change anything, I'd make melee attacks give you a defensive buff of some sort. So that every time you use a melee attack (other than the default one that can be used with every weapon) the chance of missing you is increased for around 5 seconds. I could also see giving the target a debuff which reduces their chance to hit with ranged weapons. That way the melee-fighter would have a bit better defense if everyone turns to target them, and victim of the melee attack would be unlikely to hit anything while someone is in their face pushing their gun around, but carrying a melee weapon or fighting back with unarmed combat could help neutralize the effect.

(In canon, it's odd enough to carry two ranged weapons, and it's actually very normal to defend against melee with melee.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-21-2011, 09:49 AM
I love melee and despite all the space junk, I still managed to spec my character for his ground essentials. Hope ground pvp 2.0 is epic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-21-2011, 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krizonar
I love melee and despite all the space junk, I still managed to spec my character for his ground essentials. Hope ground pvp 2.0 is epic.
it will be tht and more. what i gather is cooldowns wont be as long, and correct me if im wrong, ranged weapons will have combos like a mellee weapon. soooo... u goes pew pew pew till dude is exposed then vape he/she with the same weapon. that means u dont HAVE to switch weapons. but remember tht i may be wrong.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-21-2011, 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inktomi19d View Post
I've been having a blast with my sword Tac, but she's only a captain right now. Between Pounce, Lunge, and the gap-closing sprint that swords automatically get, that toon sticks on targets *very* well. 1-1 I generally beat most opponents (at captain rank mind you; I'm not going to swear to what it's like at VA because my melee character is not that high yet) but I need to be very patient and wait for the right time to advance when fighting teams.

My sword Tac's bane are double-rifle Tac's -- being in melee makes it hard to evade the enemy team, and a double-rifle Tac will vaporize you in 5 seconds if you can't get behind cover.

#1 is a big problem. Melee damage is prone to more min-maxing than any other type, but in PvP you are unlikely to have all of the tools for maxing it out. By contrast, rifle damage can be buffed to the point that one lucky shot from behind *might* drop an opponent, and it's pretty easy to build a character to kill with back-to-back exploits. I'm not sure whether it's melee or ranged that is the problem, but there is too much of a gap in practice.

#2 isn't a problem with swords, but might be too much of a problem with other melee weapons.

#3 doesn't bother me at all. When the chains/stuns/slows could be chained it was pretty silly. Against most players, just being in melee range and darting around is a sort of CC since Rifle Butt and Palm Strike don't automatically face them towards their enemy.

#4 doesn't bother me because I'm using swords. I can plink away with my pistol and then charge from 20 yards away when the time is right.

If I were to change anything, I'd make melee attacks give you a defensive buff of some sort. So that every time you use a melee attack (other than the default one that can be used with every weapon) the chance of missing you is increased for around 5 seconds. I could also see giving the target a debuff which reduces their chance to hit with ranged weapons. That way the melee-fighter would have a bit better defense if everyone turns to target them, and victim of the melee attack would be unlikely to hit anything while someone is in their face pushing their gun around, but carrying a melee weapon or fighting back with unarmed combat could help neutralize the effect.

(In canon, it's odd enough to carry two ranged weapons, and it's actually very normal to defend against melee with melee.)
The sword's ability to move and strike is nice, but you won't be able to finish a combo if the opponent can move (assuming they know not to stand still which most do). Also, higher levels is much less a 1v1 than it is a team fight. Most often you will have to run a through gaunlet of Tac Teams and engineer pets to reach your target even if no other player attacks you on your advance (this is where the cloak would be nice). Well spec'd Tac Team and Engineer summons can add up to a lot of flanking dps.

Support from Physician Sci is helpful in that you can have resist boosts from both hypo sprays and expose removals from Nanite Health monitor throw in Vascular Regen and you may stay alive long enough to land a combo. But, only 1 or 2 sd hypospray won't make up for the lost dps in comparison the exposes, spam, and buffed sniper damage you could be doing otherwise.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-27-2011, 04:16 AM
Ground PvPers might find these posts by Salami_Inferno interesting: http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...57#post3510957

So far, my impression is this:
  1. Faster Ground Combat in PvE? Awesome.
  2. Faster Ground Combat in PvP? Is this needed? Or even desirable?
  3. Miniguns? Rapid Fire Rifles? Is this really Startrek?
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