Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
.... go play KvK. Stop pesting FEDs who don't want to play with you into playing with you. It will only accelerate the decline of PvP.

I like SteveHale's idea of better rewards for KvF compared to FvF and KvK, as long as people can choose to go for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
04-28-2011, 03:53 PM
Hello fed pugger.

I do queue for KvK all of the time. The reason most people do not is because they fear running into a premade more than in any other queue. You see 5 klingons in the KvK queue and you just know what will happen if you join it. I have no doubt those 17 Klingons in FvK would love to do some KvK if they didn't need to fear running into a group like LORE quite so much. Cryptic needs to work on getting more people playing PvP more often with more balanced sides, and keeping a dwindling community segregated isn't the answer -- it will only speed the decline.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
04-28-2011, 10:23 PM
Shouldn't a premade aim to fight another premade ? via the organized channel ? Whats the point in fighting PUGs with gimmecked premade teams anyway ?

Oh i forgot, i see there is a new habbit calling the previous person by title. So in this case, Hello LORE propagandist !
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
04-28-2011, 11:10 PM
We do try to do that. Different time zones and all though, and often fleets only have partial premades and don't want to fight against a full one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
04-28-2011, 11:33 PM
Of course ? but do you EVER wondered why ? you look at whole pvp population from the wrong side. You think you are skilled ? yes well you probably are... but do you think you are fun to fight ? I'm sorry, you are definitely not. At least not for majority of players I believe (definitely not for me thought).

Players pvp for 3 reasons, ego (competitive sport), fun (game) and rewards (emblems). If you are very skilled, not fun to play against, you are only left with the players who play for rewards, as you do not offer anything else to others. No change to queues will help you with that.

That's also the problem of PVP in STO in general. Its not Cryptic faults, its the players. PVP is as players makes it.

If there was no players (ab)using "nofun" builds and exposing Cryptic's inability to listen to feedback, fix and balance stuff, there would be a lot more ego and fun players in pvp. There is always some people creating some "must have builds" that others try to mimic, and we end with everyone and their mothers using it. With every such change, less players pvp, and people still wonder why

So perhaps its time to stop using "nofun" builds and offer some "fun" to other players to improve the pvp for everyone ???. Maybe they will fight you after that.

From my perspective, fighting 5 bops/carriers spamming FAW, PSW and Scramble sensor is not fun, and its not even skill, its just exposing a really powerful ability combination not foreseen by the devs possible on few ships.

So how could such team blame others to not fight them ? Why waste time with them ? when you can have fun elsewhere ?

If you would like to play ice hokey for fun ? would you play against friends who play for fun ? or against bullies that crosscheck you on every occasion and play very rough ? That's how you need to look on the queues.

But hey, that's just my point of view, no need to agree with me. I'm just an averege pvp player like thousands of others, who did quit like half dozen times already, because there was no fun in pvp left. And with every return there is even less fun in it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
04-28-2011, 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
I only ever play FvF when I'm tired of waiting an hour for a match or, if on a team, someone else queues up. My knee jerk reaction is that this would be great. There are so many other Fed premades fielding FvF teams that I've never even heard of in FvK.

Isn't there some way to make the FvK queues more appealing? I still don't believe in all or nothing, but rewards have always needed an adjustment to have a significant difference between the winning and losing sides. Maybe FvF (KvK might still work since Klinks truly might be killing each other) should also have the absolutely lowest pay off in that regard, with FvK leading to the nicer rewards since it isn't a "simulation". We could use some hardcore PVP accolades that can only be achieved by participating in the war (not practicing for it in War Games).

Make the War (FvK) more appealing than the War Games (FvF).
I think what would help PvP on all fronts could be a different reward scheme.
  1. Seperate Ground and Space PvP Dailies. Now people have reason to do both and not cherry-pick.
  2. Seperate FvF, FvK and KvK PvP Dailies as well.
  3. Increase the rewards for FvK Dailies.
  4. Give an additional daily reward for winning

For example, there could be the following endgame dailies:

Each day, randomly one is picked of:
  • Complete 2 Space Areans: 2 Emblems
  • Complete 2 Space Capture & Holds: 2 Emblems
  • Complete 2 Space War Zones: 2 Emblems
Each day, randomly one is picked of:
  • Complete 2 Ground Arenas: 2 Emblems
  • Complete 2 Ground Assaults: 2 Emblems
  • Complete 2 Ground War Zones: 2 Emblems

Each Day:
  • Complete 3 FvK Matches: 3 Emblems
  • Complete 3 FvF Matches: 2 Emblems
  • Complete 3 KvK Matches: 2 Emblems
  • Win 6 matches: 2 Emblems
  • Destroy 15 Player Ships in War Zones: 2 Emblems
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
04-28-2011, 11:48 PM
Rewards wont help PVP. They do not draw people interested in PVP, they draw people interested in Rewards...

If you want to improve PVP, you need to create a ladder i think, so all those ego-pvpers have reason to fight other ego-pvpers. A fleet ladder perhaps would be best. With a new maps specially designed for premade Arenas and CaH.

Puggers would keep their pugging, premades fight premades for prestige, and everyone would be happy ?

Of course you can add rewards to the ladder too, to make more fleets compete.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
04-28-2011, 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Rewards wont help PVP. They do not draw people interested in PVP, they draw people interested in Rewards...

If you want to improve PVP, you need to create a ladder i think, so all those ego-pvpers have reason to fight other ego-pvpers. A fleet ladder perhaps would be best. With a new maps specially designed for premade Arenas and CaH.

Puggers would keep their pugging, premades fight premades for prestige, and everyone would be happy ?

Of course you can add rewards to the ladder too, to make more fleets compete.
Rewards do help. They just need to be "smart" rewards. You need to reward specifically what you want people to do.

We want people to fight hard in PvP. They should not sit idle to earn some Emblems. They should cooperate, heal, burst and all that stuff.

So give them rewards for something that requries them. Give them rewards for winning. Give them rewards for kills.

You can still give rewards for "just being there" - but give the best and coolest rewards for the hardest stuff.

A ladder can just as well get it wrong - people could end up forfeiting a match if they think it will hurt their death ratios and their win numbers. A ladder system is also just rewarsd.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
04-28-2011, 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
A ladder can just as well get it wrong - people could end up forfeiting a match if they think it will hurt their death ratios and their win numbers. A ladder system is also just rewarsd.
K/D is ******** in all games. The only thing the ladder should have is win/loose ratio of matches for fleets. Yes fleets not players. No need for anything else. It would just show what fleet is best as whole. And every member of fleet would be encouraged to win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
04-29-2011, 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
K/D is ******** in all games. The only thing the ladder should have is win/loose ratio of matches for fleets. Yes fleets not players. No need for anything else. It would just show what fleet is best as whole. And every member of fleet would be encouraged to win.
But that can also lead to people being asked to not PvP at all if they aren't among the best, because it will hurt the fleet's standing.

I think the best ladder system is one that has a lot of different aspects it tracks, so you have no real chance of leading it all, and you only check for "best DPS of the month" or "most wins of the month" and so on.

Like here: http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3438364
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