Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-04-2011, 03:01 PM
Cool discussion on all points!

There are so many ways to argue the 'exploit' definition, but I think the hot button I think comes with missions that contain rewards, XP and/or drops of any kind. I know there are a lot of hidden 'grind' missions that fleets use to boost the XP of their membership.

I suppose there's also a pretty good collection of RP maps with NOTHING on them but stages for RPers to practice their art without being griefed and ice-bombed.

Personally -- and this is just MY OPINION -- I think the Foundry plays best if it adds to the game as a whole. Extra missions, Trek-style stories with plots, XP grinds, private RP areas, all add to the game in one way or another based on individual tastes. If any of these are 'ok' with Cryptic, I would AT THE VERY LEAST press for some kind of 'tagging' system so you knew what was what, maybe remove the reviewing system from "Utility Maps." I'd hate to throw some variety into my character leveling by playing a Foundry mission only to find out it's 2 hours of chat with no goal or payoff. Likewise, I'd hate to go into a 'story' only to end up frustratingly disintegrated every five seconds.

I guess I'd like to hear what some of you think the harm would be one way or the other. I'm generally a live-and-let-live kind of person, but if something is going on that can actually break the game -- or the Foundry -- I'll join the cause against it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
05-04-2011, 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJRigg
There are so many ways to argue the 'exploit' definition, but I think the hot button I think comes with missions that contain rewards, XP and/or drops of any kind. I know there are a lot of hidden 'grind' missions that fleets use to boost the XP of their membership.
There might be some missions that people use for accolades, but I doubt there are a lot of hidden ones, since there have been several good ones around since launch, and they're easy enough to find if that's what you want.

Since the fighter grind nerf, Foundry missions aren't really useful for "grinding" anything. At any rate they're less useful than Fleet Actions, DSEs, STFs, patrols, explores, etc., since they don't include completion rewards, and kill XP is trivial. The only "grind" they're even marginally useful for is fighting the same type of enemies on several maps in a row; and the only advantage you get there is spending less time staring at the loading screen. Even there, it's only a convenience for the species that don't happen to appear in any of the mass encounters like Fleet Actions. For Romulans or Klingons that already star in the big instances, there's no difference at all between the FAs and just another big map with a bunch of mobs on it (maybe the door is more convenient, so you don't have to truck out to Psi Velorum or wherever, but that's it). You still have to kill the things you have to kill to get an accolade.

A click to complete mission will let you do a Foundry daily quicker, but so will any of the hundreds of recruiting videos and fleet starbases that weren't meant for any sinister purpose. Until they come up with some way to let people easily make "safe" nonobjective missions, there is no simple, enforceable policy that can solve that one.

There has been one consistent complaint since launch, and it's quite reasonable, which is that with thousands of people using the system, making thousands of missions, it can get hard to find the missions you want to play. The answer to that isn't banning missions or authors, but just giving authors and players better ways to sort through what's there. As long as there are thousands of authors, there are still going to be thousands of missions no matter how you sort them out. But useful categories could help a lot to make it easier on everyone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
05-04-2011, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
[..]my RP lounge, or my fleet starbase. It's a place I made for me and for my fleet, not for you.
Apart from the fact that those missions aren't yours, but Cryptic's.

From the Foundry EULA:
Quote:
You agree that, all New Game Materials produced using the Foundry becomes the property of Cryptic Studios, to use as they see fit.
As such only Cryptic should be able to decide who can play which mission, same as all their own created missions, open to all, separated only by faction.

A 'private' mission therefore prevents people playing Cryptic's missions, for which they have paid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-04-2011, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsciw View Post
Apart from the fact that those missions aren't yours, but Cryptic's.
Sure, and if Cryptic wants to play a "hidden" mission, I'm sure they won't have a problem finding the door. The EULA doesn't give you any "right" to play the mission. In fact, if you read to the end, you'll see that it says:

Quote:
IF you decide to make available the use of the New Game Materials created by you to other gamers, you agree to do so solely without charge.
So Cryptic can do whatever they want with what an author makes. And the author can also share it, or not, with other players. But if they do share it, then all it says is they can't charge for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-04-2011, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
So Cryptic can do whatever they want with what an author makes. And the author can also share it, or not, with other players. But if they do share it, then all it says is they can't charge for it.
WRONG. If the mission is Cryptic's, then you dont get to decide whether I can play it or not. ONly they get to make that decision.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
05-04-2011, 05:40 PM
Heezdedjim, I look forward to your rant thread when you get banned from the Foundry. Please don't disappoint me, make it a doozy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
05-04-2011, 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
Heezdedjim, I look forward to your rant thread when you get banned from the Foundry. Please don't disappoint me, make it a doozy.
You know if you want a wish to come true, you gotta keep it a sekrit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
05-05-2011, 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
So Cryptic can do whatever they want with what an author makes. And the author can also share it, or not, with other players. But if they do share it, then all it says is they can't charge for it.
Yes, they can publish it, or not. That's about it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
05-05-2011, 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
[font="Verdana"][color="Wheat"]All Cryptic needs to do is expose the mission start point through an additional information field in the mission description that we all see.
This. Remove the responsibility for this from the author to the system.

Quote:
If any of these are 'ok' with Cryptic, I would AT THE VERY LEAST press for some kind of 'tagging' system so you knew what was what, maybe remove the reviewing system from "Utility Maps."
A tagging/keyword system would also be good.

The current search allows you to search for stuff listed in the description and not just the title but you cannot search for "no grind" or "no roleplaying". So we need a few standard tags that you can use to control the search more precisely.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
05-05-2011, 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfPit View Post
[font="Verdana"]I'd say even that Cryptic should simply make it so map entry doors appear in a special mission description panel
This is a great idea as it would help eliminate the issue of finding the start point when someone unintentionally forgets to add the start point in their mission briefing too. Maybe they could append it to the end of the briefing text along with adding some kind of marker on the galaxy and area maps too if it's your primary mission.
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