Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-05-2011, 06:17 AM
Don't forget to nerf it and boost the buffs of CRF & CSV to compensate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-05-2011, 09:29 AM
I do not understand why you guys cannot support this, I say give the Klingon's more ships but the Federation should have a carrier. In the star trek cannon the Federation does possess carriers, what is important is sticking to the cannon as the game has done so far. Most if not all of the Federation ships can carry at least shuttle craft so if you don't want the Feds to have carrier at least give us the ability to launch shuttle craft from our ships just as it is done in the cannon. Since we are discussing cannon, the Klingon's really did not have a variety of ships but the programmers of the game have already given the Klingon side great ships such as the carriers and the gorn hybrid ships. Also in the cannon we really don't see the Klingon's as scientists striving to explore and develop new technology like the Federation does, Indeed the Klingon's used the same cloaking devices for many years. As you can see the programmers are sticking to the cannon and given this fact and the fact that in all the star trek cannon the Feds to have carriers and at the very least can launch multiple shuttle craft and fighters from there ships we should be given a carrier or that ability to launch shuttle craft.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-05-2011, 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralBlack10 View Post
I do not understand why you guys cannot support this, I say give the Klingon's more ships but the Federation should have a carrier. In the star trek cannon the Federation does possess carriers..
... let me stop you right there... The federation does not have carriers:

No... The Akira is not a carrier... it was intended to be, but didn make it into canon.

No... The Fighters seen in Deep Space nine were self sustaining warp capable ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-05-2011, 09:45 AM
you cant quote one thing i say please read the rest of my argument. I feel I make several valid points and yes the Akira did make it into the cannon appearing in several episodes and in star trek first contact. This link will help you learn more about the Akira class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_class_starship and I have several other links if you would like to learn more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-05-2011, 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralBlack10 View Post
you cant quote one things i say please read the rest of my argument. I feel I make several valid points and yes the akira did make it into the cannon appearing in several episodes and in star trek first contact.
Not as a carrier... I read the whole text btw, and the single fact that the federation did never have have Carriers makes the point invalid... Cause they never did.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Akira_class
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-05-2011, 09:50 AM
OK if it carry's fighters than it is a carrier. It comes with at least a hundred fighters, and since it carrys fighters it is a carrier and even if the Feds never had a carrier Fed ships should have the ability to launch shuttle-craft since Fed ships have that ability which is the point I was trying to make.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-05-2011, 09:57 AM
The Akira did make it on TV and the Big Screen. But not as a carrier. Starfleet is not a military organization so a carrier never made sense. It still doesn't. Unless you want to carry probes, satellites, etc...

I play mostly as a Klingon (I do play Fed from time to time but I just don't like it) and I don't particularly like the carrier (I want a D5 or a real K't'inga) but I don't see why Feds should get one.

When Starfleet met the Borg did they say: they have a Borg cube! I want one! No. They invented the Defiant, a small ship that can move fast and deal a lot of damage.

The First Federation uses ships the size of a small moon. Did Starfleet try to make a similar ship? No.

Wanting what someone else has goes against everything that Star Trek is all about.

And as a wise person known as Spock once said: After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.

Qa'pla!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-05-2011, 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralBlack10 View Post
OK if it carry's fighters than it is a carrier. It comes with at least a hundred fighters, and since it carrys fighters it is a carrier and even if the Feds never had a carrier Fed ships should have the ability to launch shuttle-craft since Fed ships have that ability which is the point I was trying to make.
Sadly none of the federation ships have even room for 50 Starfleet Fighters wich you can see here is significantly bigger than the shuttles. Not even the Galaxy, wich is the biggest ship ever to be constructed (as seen in this Image: Galaxy class Schematic (with shuttles))

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trygvar View Post
The Akira did make it on TV and the Big Screen. But not as a carrier. Starfleet is not a military organization so a carrier never made sense. It still doesn't. Unless you want to carry probes, satellites, etc...

I play mostly as a Klingon (I do play Fed from time to time but I just don't like it) and I don't particularly like the carrier (I want a D5 or a real K't'inga) but I don't see why Feds should get one.

When Starfleet met the Borg did they say: they have a Borg cube! I want one! No. They invented the Defiant, a small ship that can move fast and deal a lot of damage.

The First Federation uses ships the size of a small moon. Did Starfleet try to make a similar ship? No.

Wanting what someone else has goes against everything that Star Trek is all about.

And as a wise person known as Spock once said: After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.

Qa'pla!
Wich is the point I was trying to make.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-05-2011, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralBlack10 View Post
I do not understand why you guys cannot support this, I say give the Klingon's more ships but the Federation should have a carrier. In the star trek cannon the Federation does possess carriers, what is important is sticking to the cannon as the game has done so far. Most if not all of the Federation ships can carry at least shuttle craft so if you don't want the Feds to have carrier at least give us the ability to launch shuttle craft from our ships just as it is done in the cannon. Since we are discussing cannon, the Klingon's really did not have a variety of ships but the programmers of the game have already given the Klingon side great ships such as the carriers and the gorn hybrid ships. Also in the cannon we really don't see the Klingon's as scientists striving to explore and develop new technology like the Federation does, Indeed the Klingon's used the same cloaking devices for many years. As you can see the programmers are sticking to the cannon and given this fact and the fact that in all the star trek cannon the Feds to have carriers and at the very least can launch multiple shuttle craft and fighters from there ships we should be given a carrier or that ability to launch shuttle craft.
I take it you did not read any of the links I posted and simply say "I don't understand".
You don't understand because you did not read any of them where everything you posted in your comment above was discussed ot nauseum.
And I'd like to point out that "cannon" is a weapon the term you probably mean is "canon".

I'd to nontheless adress what you say to some degree.
Klingon ships have shuttles as well, their ships have visible shuttlebays as well.
So such an ability would also be shared among both factions.
Every ship can already launch Scorpion fighters, which means every ship is already a makeshift carrier.
I'd like to know what "Gorn Hybrid ships" means if you don't mind.
There is only one Gorn ship playable, not several.
And it is not a hybrid of any kind.

Klingons have had science officers since the Original Series.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mara
Klingons must do exploring of a sort.
They don't do it for knowledges sake like the Starfleet does it.
But how would the Klingons find new worlds to settle, new resources in nebulae and aseroid fields to exploit without exploring them..and finding them in the first place?

I wrote a small text regarding what kind of "sciency" ships Klingons would probably build and why here

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...65&postcount=8

since you obviously don't like to read links to other threads, I'll quote myself instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Proposal Klingon Scout ships

Why?

Klingons do go out into space to investigate solar systems.
They do so to see if there are planets that are suitable for colonization or have exploitable resources.
If those worlds are populated they might become subjects of the Klingon Empire when warships arrive to conquer them
Klingons may investigate nebulae to see if they can be used as power sources etc.
For this they need ships with scientific equipment.
Sure Klingon applications of these scientific systems would be somewhat more "practical" than the way Starfleet would do things but the general functionality would be comparable.
For example Starfleet would survey a mountain to learn something about the age and history of a planet.
Klingons would survey the same mountain to see if it contains valuable minerals.
Starfleet would investigate flaura and fauna to learn something about the way evolution occured on the planet.
Klingons would check for hazards and investigate whether flaura and fauna would make them a good foodsource for a possible colonization.
A Starfleet geologist would analyze the tectonic stability of an area out of interest.
A Klingongeologist would check whether an area is stable enought for a colony or mine or whether it is suitable for a geothermal powerplant.

Different goals, similar means.
Klingons would probably have ships more suitedfor long-range scouting missions, especially ships with greater fuel and material reserves for independent operations and more dedicated equipment.
Also we've seen Klingon ships on research missions even though the usual budget restraints resulted in existing ships to be used for these purposes onscreen

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/IKS_Toh%27Kaht

and ships actually suited for those tasks to simply be mentioned because that's obviously cheaper than building a model for them:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Klingon...4th_century%29

So I'd like to know whether you honestly believe Klingons do no exploring whatsoever or whether your logic is entirely motivated by the "what the Klingons have, the Federation must have as well but what the Federation has, the Klingons must not have" rationale that we've come accustomed to in these forums.

I don't rule out you honestly believe what you say but I've seen to much to not assume the worst any more.

I'd be very interested to know based on what information you can say Klingons have been using the same cloaks for many years because the specifics regarding the age of Klingon cloaks was never addressed in any show.
Additionally Klingon cloaks were perfectly capable of hiding an entire fleet in fron of DS9 whouth anyone noticing them ("Way of the Warrior")
Since it stands to reason Starfleet's sensors have been enhanced since the 23rd century the cloaks must have been as well otherwise the fleet would have been detected with ease.
So do you honestly believe Klingons have been using the same cloaks for some 80+ years or is this also based on a rationale I'm familiar with on these forums: "Klingons are too dumb to develop anything new so they were also too dumb to develop their own carrier, ergo they don't actually deserve it but the far more intelligent Federation does."?

As for the Akira, yes the designer originally intended her to be a fighter carrying torpedo battlecruiser

http://www.starshipdatalink.net/art/akira.html

however there was never an Akira in any episode or movie that ever launched anything but...torpedoes.
Even in situations where fighters would have been desperately needed, like in "Message in a Bottle" where an Akira and two Defiants went against three Warbirds the Akira never launched any fighters.
Does Starfleet routinely send empty carriers on their way or is she no carier at all?
Given the size of the Peregrine fighers, which have a cockpit for 2 people side by side they probably wouldn't fit through the Akira's shuttlebay doors anyway.

On DS9 we indeed saw fighters.
We saw them already with the fleet then it set sail towards the enemy.
Did they launch the fighteres to look good when they left the Starbase to then recover them again before going to warp?
We saw them deployed in "Sacrific of Angels" before they detected the incoming Dominion Fleet.
Does Starfleet routinely deploy and recover their fighters out of boredom at random times or do they actually not need to be launched at all?
We know from Episodes like Enterprise's "Diversion" that an NX could carry another NX in its warpfield for several minutes.
Think 200 years ahead and think of the totally different scales between a group of fighters and a Galaxy, could a Galaxy not easily carry two dozen fighters clustered around it within its own Subspace Field?
As anazonda mentioned fighters have visible warp engines.
Those could be used to stabilize them while they are inside a larger ship's warpfield.
Or as we've been shown in DS9's "The Maquis" and also "Heart of Stone" thsoe fighter are at least as warp capable as Runabouts so there is "less" need for a carrier then there would be if the fighteres were impulse-only.
Then what would the Federation need a carrier for?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-05-2011, 10:25 AM
Quoting canon as "Klingons don't have this... Klingons didn't have that..." doesn't help as it shows one's inability to think of STO as a MMO ( which must be more rounded to be a multi-faction game) and not an expression of the limited viewpoint of the TV series and Movies.
For instance I only saw one cloaking Defiant or AGT Enterprise in the whole of the genre. So who is going to give up thier copies of the such vessels so STO reflects canon properly?

One can't argue both absolutes and fluidity at the same time.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Klingons have had science officers since the Original Series.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mara
Klingons must do exploring of a sort.
They don't do it for knowledges sake like the Starfleet does it.
But how would the Klingons find new worlds to settle, new resources in nebulae and aseroid fields to exploit without exploring them..and finding them in the first place?
I have often LOLed because of the belief the KDF doesn't have scientist.
How else did the feds think the Klingon species made it into Interstellar space without a knowledge of science?
I don't remember anybody mentioning the Hurq leaving a corps of Engineers behind or multiple copies of their version of SpaceFlight 101 schoolbooks.
The persistant belief otherwise is a prime example of the fallacy of canon and its limited viewpoint.

Canon = (If a fed didn't see it - it never happened) :p
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