Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
05-17-2011, 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diligent
tbh guys I don't understand the people here who whine about various BO abilities being OP.

There will ALWAYS be OP powers.. there will ALWAYS be people whining about whatever.

One thing never changes: Good teamwork > all

as it has been proven over and over and over again. Back in the day, sci powers were even more OP.. the SNB was practically an IWIN button. But what happened? Fleets that executed good teamwork continued to paste over all sci BoP teams etc.
True to a point... The 5 man escort teams and 5 man cruiser teams are almost always completely dominated by the debuffing power of an all sci ship team. That's not what I call balanced.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
05-17-2011, 06:03 PM
Quote:
True to a point... The 5 man escort teams and 5 man cruiser teams are almost always completely dominated by the debuffing power of an all sci ship team. That's not what I call balanced.
actually a 5-man cruiser team does just as well as a 5-man science.

5 science ships only work if their skills overlap. of course 5 tykens rifts will be great. but rarely do you have 5 science ships all specced for the same power, and all 5 enemy ships in range.

a 5-man cruiser faw team is just as good. as long as they don't bunch up to get hit by the sci aoe, they can do very well against an all-sci

I had one game where we had sci, tac, and eng players all in cruisers vs a 5-man sci team, and we won. not by a lot, but because we played smart and communicated. 5-men science team are powerful yes, but skill and teamwork win out.

so don't say an all-sci team is overpowered compared to 5 escorts or 5 cruisers. they are all competitive with each other*

a really good cruiser-faw team is currently a little op, i'll admit. but that might just be my frustration talking
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
05-18-2011, 01:52 AM
An all sci vessel team isn't the ideal setup by any means either. A cooperative team of 2 escorts and a mix of sci vessels and cruisers trump them.

People who complain about sci "spam" should actually fly a science vessel once in a while. A science ship isn't meant to have massively powerful weapons, they're supposed to find alternate means of winning. I'll subnuke you, tachyon beam you, hit you with CPB 3, and your shields will be gone. There won't be anything you can do about it. If I'm with a good team, my escort friends should pick you off in seconds...but if its left to me, Ill drop a nice tricobalt on you and put you at 2% hull.

All with 25 power to weapons.

But keep in mind, my powers are on a significant cool down, and the team that facerolled the OP didn't think ahead far enough to realie that they blew all their skills on one target, leaving them otherwise vulnerable to the rest of the team. If his team had focus fired one of the weaker ones (typically a D'Kyr), they would have stood a better chance. If they had a few escorts, it would have been even easier. Point being, sci spam isn't a problem, learning tactics to survive is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
05-18-2011, 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVERLOURD
actually a 5-man cruiser team does just as well as a 5-man science.

5 science ships only work if their skills overlap. of course 5 tykens rifts will be great. but rarely do you have 5 science ships all specced for the same power, and all 5 enemy ships in range.

a 5-man cruiser faw team is just as good. as long as they don't bunch up to get hit by the sci aoe, they can do very well against an all-sci

I had one game where we had sci, tac, and eng players all in cruisers vs a 5-man sci team, and we won. not by a lot, but because we played smart and communicated. 5-men science team are powerful yes, but skill and teamwork win out.

so don't say an all-sci team is overpowered compared to 5 escorts or 5 cruisers. they are all competitive with each other*

a really good cruiser-faw team is currently a little op, i'll admit. but that might just be my frustration talking
While your points are very valid, I disagree with the all 5 escort team being very effective. debuffing and healing seems to outdo raw DPS by leaps and bounds... unless those same 5 escorts use Fire at Will. :p

I've been in a coordinated all escort team before. The results were... less than desirable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
05-18-2011, 09:37 PM
-stands up- my name is Mai Kai the Science Guy, and i'm tired of being prosecuted for being a science player and accused of being a spammer. I run no duplicate powers yet get called a "science spammer". I just want love and peace for all maaaaaan.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
05-18-2011, 10:26 PM
Over powered skills are only suffered by those that lose. No one ever complains when their setup wins. (Okay, some do). If true balance were ever achieved, no match would ever end. The only way that everyone will be happy is if the Devs find a way for everyone to win all the time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
05-19-2011, 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esquire View Post
...
And to be honest, you can trace it all back to the respective PVP communities never ending quest for balance. ...
are we talking of pvp players, seeking for a challenge, knowing a certain new setup will beat other setups easily and will be beaten by certain setups, and knowing, without a teamwork they will lose.
or are we talking about pvp players, which are just a bunch of cpt. james t. "i kill you all" kirk , and whoever beats me is a cheater?

btw... when will be weapon fired be nerfed *i.g. 30 seconds gc on weaponfire*? i can't believe that 5 ships killed me, while i had no shilds equipped...
weaponfire is OP
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
05-19-2011, 03:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluerockBeing04 View Post
An all sci vessel team isn't the ideal setup by any means either. A cooperative team of 2 escorts and a mix of sci vessels and cruisers trump them.

People who complain about sci "spam" should actually fly a science vessel once in a while. A science ship isn't meant to have massively powerful weapons, they're supposed to find alternate means of winning. I'll subnuke you, tachyon beam you, hit you with CPB 3, and your shields will be gone. There won't be anything you can do about it. If I'm with a good team, my escort friends should pick you off in seconds...but if its left to me, Ill drop a nice tricobalt on you and put you at 2% hull.

All with 25 power to weapons.

But keep in mind, my powers are on a significant cool down, and the team that facerolled the OP didn't think ahead far enough to realie that they blew all their skills on one target, leaving them otherwise vulnerable to the rest of the team. If his team had focus fired one of the weaker ones (typically a D'Kyr), they would have stood a better chance. If they had a few escorts, it would have been even easier. Point being, sci spam isn't a problem, learning tactics to survive is.
Only somewhat true..

Science vessels can do extreme damage, as well as extreme healing.

On my Tac SV, Ive outscored every single ship in both arenas and C&Hs more than just a few times.. Generally it lies in the top3 in damage.

My healing SV quite easily outheals the vast majority of healing zombies, and are able to atleast match the best healing SCs out there. This while keeping the Commander slot for some nastyness.

The drawback is that it neither have spikedamage or healing (though a good TBR3 run can do damage extremely fast, and FBP3 is as potent as the ship shooting at me (which multiple Defiant captains can attest to)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
05-19-2011, 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
-stands up- my name is Mai Kai the Science Guy, and i'm tired of being prosecuted for being a science player and accused of being a spammer. I run no duplicate powers yet get called a "science spammer". I just want love and peace for all maaaaaan.
Dont you know that using SS3 and GW at the same time is spamming?

Its just like Tac captains (shame on me) is spamming Tac skills - I mean, Alpha3, GDF, FoMM, Beta3, CRF2, BOL3 and HYT1 All at the same time? Shame on Tac spammers!

This might be an appropiate responce when people complain of Scispamming
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
05-19-2011, 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Science vessels can do extreme damage, as well as extreme healing.
This is true. I've seen several players effectively use hybrid damage/healing builds. Now if only they would tell me where they got their hax...
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