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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-16-2011, 08:22 AM
I Like how an MVAM escort can capture a point when broken into 3 parts faster then 2 actual ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-16-2011, 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welan
You may like it, bud the ‚nubs‘ may have another reason to get frustrated, starting thinking: PvP sucks. We need to attract more players to PvP and bugs are definitely not good for that.

For that what you want: never ending PvP, open PvP areas (ground and space) in the neutral zone would be perfect, where you can pop in and fight until the end of the days or all enemies disappeared. For me, there would no need for any rewards for that. I would visit these places regularly just to improve my PvP abilities and having fun.

Welan
Perhaps

The problem with C&H:

There is no reason to PvP (doesnt affect the outcome), you could just cap, and run whenever the opponent comes to capture (thus eliminating the "hold" part)

There is no reason to Cap, since "winning" the map doesnt give any worthwhile benefits.


Ideally, there would be an penalty for losing an undefended capture point.. Likewise there should be some benefit from defending them as well..

Suggested changes:

1: Any captured point that is turned neutral undefended, will give an instabonus of 30-50 points for the capturing team.

2: Any captured point will give a slight bonus as long as a single ship is stationary within a radius of 2k

3: Losing team lose all rewards from the match.. No dailycount, no merits, no EC, no XP
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-16-2011, 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
3: Losing team lose all rewards from the match.. No dailycount, no merits, no EC, no XP
Hi,

I can agree with all your points. However, the last... Its a shame but many if not most player would not enter a PvP if they are in danger to get no rewards. So that might keep people away from PvP and low participation already is a problem.

Welan
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-16-2011, 04:12 PM
Back on topic are you referring to the fed only has to stare at a point and it turns and KDF has to wait for an act of Kahless for it turn. Yeah that bug is annoying. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-17-2011, 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
Back on topic are you referring to the fed only has to stare at a point and it turns and KDF has to wait for an act of Kahless for it turn. Yeah that bug is annoying. :p
Yes exactly this one I am talking about. But sometimes it is also working the other way around and than the pure FEDs even don’t have Kahless for help.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-17-2011, 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welan
Hi,

I can agree with all your points. However, the last... Its a shame but many if not most player would not enter a PvP if they are in danger to get no rewards. So that might keep people away from PvP and low participation already is a problem.

Welan
The people that arent going to fight to win the map, aint interested in PvP in the first place..

If they *are* interested in PvP, a loss doesnt matter much.. This only really hurt the people that dont care for PvP, and they have no place being in a PvP match anyways. (you know those people sitting AFK at the bases, theyre the ones Im gunning for here)

An alternative could perhaps be the following

2 mutually exclusive "dailies"

1: Win 3 C&Hs (or Arenas or Ker'rat)

2: Participate in 5? 10? C&Hs (or Arenas or Ker'rat)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-17-2011, 05:35 AM
They really need a mission that rewards people for wins, in addition to the current ones that reward people just for being there (or some variation on being there). No one gets their feelings hurt, and people who are really there to play can receive better rewards while encouraging others to pay more attention to the objectives.

If objectives mattered, even just a little bit, I would be less likely to join the mass that turns Cap and Holds into Arena. Right now it doesn't matter, capping in and of itself isn't fun, and shooting people is!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-17-2011, 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
The people that arent going to fight to win the map, aint interested in PvP in the first place..

If they *are* interested in PvP, a loss doesnt matter much.. This only really hurt the people that dont care for PvP, and they have no place being in a PvP match anyways. (you know those people sitting AFK at the bases, theyre the ones Im gunning for here)

I suppose this might help, and tbh i doubt for some it would make any difference, i would just pug less (a tragic loss for the pugging community ) and run in full groups more, i doubt i would find myself actually losing very many games at all.

However, those suggesting this also lose few games when running about in fleet groups and only get beat a few times when they happen to run into a stronger fleet group. Those that pug will eventually start to dwindle as everyone needs some sort of reward for the participation. Whether that is a reward from winning, enjoying a good game or emblems you need something. If the average pve/pvp'er stops gaining any reward they will likely give up the time to pvp and spend that time doing a part of the game they do feel they get some reward from.

That will leave the more dominant fleets to fight it out, now i notice that whenever linty, hilbert era or anyone i group with calls out in opvp if there are any premades that are on that want to fight 99% of the time that is met with silence, odd when a match or two later we bump into a fleet premade in a random arena, surely if it were about the pvp there would be players lined up to have a game in a challenge match. There is not because they do not want to fight in a match they will most likely lose.

if you faced tsi/dob 3 games out of 3 and got beat and no reward say 15-4 only it took an hour for them to break you, and you knew the 5 players in arena were that same premade and another fight would be just like the last would you queue up for it again, would you queue up to face them 5 times, or 6, everyone has limits and the solo players limits would be reach faster than the premades, but eventually even the premades would give up from the weakest to the strongest.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-17-2011, 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardept View Post
I suppose this might help, and tbh i doubt for some it would make any difference, i would just pug less (a tragic loss for the pugging community ) and run in full groups more, i doubt i would find myself actually losing very many games at all.

However, those suggesting this also lose few games when running about in fleet groups and only get beat a few times when they happen to run into a stronger fleet group. Those that pug will eventually start to dwindle as everyone needs some sort of reward for the participation. Whether that is a reward from winning, enjoying a good game or emblems you need something. If the average pve/pvp'er stops gaining any reward they will likely give up the time to pvp and spend that time doing a part of the game they do feel they get some reward from.

That will leave the more dominant fleets to fight it out, now i notice that whenever linty, hilbert era or anyone i group with calls out in opvp if there are any premades that are on that want to fight 99% of the time that is met with silence, odd when a match or two later we bump into a fleet premade in a random arena, surely if it were about the pvp there would be players lined up to have a game in a challenge match. There is not because they do not want to fight in a match they will most likely lose.

if you faced tsi/dob 3 games out of 3 and got beat and no reward say 15-4 only it took an hour for them to break you, and you knew the 5 players in arena were that same premade and another fight would be just like the last would you queue up for it again, would you queue up to face them 5 times, or 6, everyone has limits and the solo players limits would be reach faster than the premades, but eventually even the premades would give up from the weakest to the strongest.
Perhaps youre right, but..

I think one of the reasons many fleets (Including LF) doesnt bother to really coordinate, is because it doesnt matter.. Even with an uncoordinated group, we only really lose to the highprofiled premades, and if we cared about winning, Im sure we could equal almost any group in PvP.

Now, if winning meant something, Id have to believe that most people would start working together. They would have reason to.

And to answer your last question, yes.. Id play the match.. Because, after all, I learn most by playing against people that are better than me..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-17-2011, 10:44 AM
Hi

I guess don’t giving a reward at all for the losing team is finally not a good idea for several reasons:

1. Currently Klingons need the rewards for leveling and actually several people are complaining that they are not able to level their character because of the low participation in PvP. So you can’t obtain already many PvP matches and if additionally to that you will not get a reward while losing a match, which may happen most ot the time than …..

2. It’s finally not bad to have little additional motivation for less experienced players to join PvP. Like a little hug at the end, saying thank you for joining the game even you had no chance to win. Becoming an enthusiastic PvP player the rewards are less of a matter (if you are not a Klingon), but not all people are enthusiastic about it from the beginning as it was the case for myself.

3. Doing PvP winning or not will increase your experience and it would be appropriate to reflect that at least in skillpoints.


To get rid of the leechers or afaik players which just want to earn the rewards without participation in the match, only that players should achieve a reward which obtained a minimum score for damage or (cross)healings. Another even better method could be if it would possible to kick a player out of the PvP map if all members of the same party agree.

Welan
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