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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
In the ancient times shortly after release, KDF players reported that they could indeed level only via PvP.

Today, this is basically impossible in an acceptable time frame. The PvP Queues are very slow at lower levels.

What leads to the low participation? NOt enough lower tier players in the first place? Not enough rewards? Not enough PvP awareness?

I would assume it's a combination of the above. How can we fix it?

The PvE levelling basically introduces new levels at regular intervals to the player, leading him along the path. There are gaps (giant ones on the KDF side, smaller but ntoable ones on the Fed side), but there is still a path you can mostly follow.

This is a PvE path mostly because it doesn't seem to include PvP missions. Of course, there aren't "real" PvP missions in the first place, we only have the repeatable missions and 3 game modes in the first place.

But maybe it is possible to introduce a certain "story" element, to it.

For example, at every tier, Admiral Quinn or Chancellor J'mpok (not one of those PvP flunkies) "reminds" the player of PvP with a mission. Each tier mission could have a little different flavor text, simulating the progress of the war across the tiers (even thought he missions don't actually change). Basically this mission is a grand wrapper mission that covers some or all of the PvP zones - and yields notable skill point and item rewards.

It is only a one-time mission (maybe with the possibility to use episode replay) like regular story missions. But it is there to motivate people to go into PvP at least once per tier, hopefully leading to a few people sticking around for longer.

I also think the Dailiy Missions we have at endgame should exist at lower tiers as well. They could possibly also be combined with a useful item reward (something like the Hydrogen Fuel Surprluis Cells.)

Ideally, we could have:
  • Tier Wrapper Mission(s). These should have an item reward as well as a skill point reward. (The item reward could also be a piece of a new set - something more along the lines of the Breen set)
  • Daily Mission. This would have a consumable item as reward, some level-appropriate Badges and a skill point reward. (Alternatively, there could be a PvP exclusive consumable item that can be bought with badges.)

---

That's the kind of stuff that Cryptic can do.

Is there anything we as the community could do? I can't think of much more than "Level more Alts.."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-16-2011, 03:50 AM
or just set up a teir que thats queable by everyone but only if theyre in a ship of that teir and then their captain skills get reduced
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-16-2011, 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
or just set up a teir que thats queable by everyone but only if theyre in a ship of that teir and then their captain skills get reduced
Or simply add the capability of setting a tier youd like to PvP at, complete with a number of preset builds (ideally one for each tier)

IE: A VA player wishing to play at T3 would set a T3 ship and use a T3 preset skillbuild (with Skillpoints equal to a Commander 11)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-16-2011, 05:56 AM
Hi

Special rewards for PvP are one thing. I guess especially specific ship and personnel sets which can only be acquired by doing PvP would be a great attraction for players. These sets should be always rank specific in order to build up a new set at every rank. Another option would be to collect special tokens during PvP allowing buying ships which are otherwise expensive in the shop or special clothes/insignia.

The main reason for the low participation in PvP is that many people get easily frustrated. Newbies in a pug will be instantly overruned by advanced players. If you get slaughtered constantly you may get the impression that PvP might not be fun, at least not for you. So one thing the community can do: if you are going to win quickly without serious resistance, give the opponents a timeout to organize, may even give some hints for improvements. The reward will be more fun.

Another thing: don’t insult newbies from the beginning but give advises. You also have been a newbie once.

FED should also have the missions “get killed by another player x times” with a nice reward. In that way people may learn to deal with the frustration.

For the improvement of the pug game I would suggest to have a timeout of 1 minute in the beginning of every game. No player can do something during that time. So the pug has a chance to get organized and to talk strategy.

Welan
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-16-2011, 05:59 AM
It would be nice if some old vitality was pumped back into lower tier pvp as I miss its simple elegance and gameplay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-16-2011, 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welan
So one thing the community can do: if you are going to win quickly without serious resistance, give the opponents a timeout to organize, may even give some hints for improvements. The reward will be more fun.

Another thing: don’t insult newbies from the beginning but give advises. You also have been a newbie once.
Problem with your suggestion: it is not the established PVPers who insult new players, it is the new and/or less experienced players who insult the established players by calling them cheaters, exploiters, hackers.
And sometimes it feels like only a tiny fration of these players is interested in advice, the vast majority just seems to look for an excuse to justify warping out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welan
FED shout also have the missions “get killed by another player x times” with a nice reward. In that way people may learn to deal with the frustration.
Not a good idea. We already have players afking/suiciding to get their emblem rewards (primarily federation players). Rewards for dying will encourage intentional deaths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welan
For the improvement of the pug game I would suggest to have a timeout of 1 minute in the beginning of every game. No player can do something during that time. So the pug has a chance to get organized and to talk strategy.
If this is combined with a "ready" button so that when everybody clicks "ready" the remaining time of that minute can be skipped, it could be a sensible addition. Also automatic teaming would be useful.


But none of this solves the problem of non-existant pvp at lower tiers. Allowing high level players to play at lower tiers with reduced stats (and appropriate ships) feels like the only way to fix that. Or increase pvp participation across the board by making pvp more appealing to the general public. But let's face it, Cryptic making pvp more appealing? They were too busy with nerfing efficient engines to copy/past the old FAW to stop the bleeding among the pvp population. The only thing we can hope for when it comes to Cryptic and PVP is that they don't break more things.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-16-2011, 06:23 AM
Or maybe sidekick people up to VA level. Or have some combats where ship tier is limited but not player level, which would let everybody go back and fight at lower tiers.

Or do the Guild Wars thing and have PvP be at max level from the beginning, with max level PvP equipment that only works there. That would allow people get a feel of the endgame from day one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-16-2011, 06:49 AM
Or just set up an OPVP zone & let EVERONE at all levels fight there. give more XP & rewards to lower level players. Wouldn't it be fun to see how many Connie's it takes to kill a carrier?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-16-2011, 07:34 AM
Quote:
Or just set up an OPVP zone & let EVERONE at all levels fight there. give more XP & rewards to lower level players. Wouldn't it be fun to see how many Connie's it takes to kill a carrier?
I am not sure I like playing one of the Mirandas in "Sacrifice of Angels"...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-16-2011, 07:45 AM
Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
it is the new and/or less experienced players who insult the established players by calling them cheaters, exploiters, hackers. And sometimes it feels like only a tiny fration of these players is interested in advice, the vast majority just seems to look for an excuse to justify warping out.
Of course that happens and nobody wants to have such players in the game. So, no need to treat them with care finally.

I don’t want to say that the advanced PvPers are usually treading newbies badly. But it happens and from my experience about the same rate you have those crybabies in the game. Fortunately both don’t happen too often. I just want to say that becoming familiar with the PvP gameplay can be frustrating in the beginning and I have the impression that many players stop playing PvP for ever because of some bad experience in the beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
Not a good idea. We already have players afking/suiciding to get their emblem rewards (primarily federation players). Rewards for dying will encourage intentional deaths.
Agree. Therefore, this mission should be available only once. Just to sweeten PvP in the beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
If this is combined with a "ready" button so that when everybody clicks "ready" the remaining time of that minute can be skipped, it could be a sensible addition. Also automatic teaming would be useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
Allowing high level players to play at lower tiers with reduced stats (and appropriate ships) feels like the only way to fix that.
Ok, but that will reduce the available players at higher levels the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
Or increase pvp participation across the board by making pvp more appealing to the general public.
Yes it’s urgently needed to attract a bigger proportion of the STO-community playing PvP. If it would be just around 50% we wouldn’t need to maintain this discussion I guess.

Welan
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