Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Where is the negative defense
05-16-2011, 08:08 AM
Ok, maybe some one can clear this up. I have started to see this more and more, ships either turreting in reverse or standing still or at low speed turning and absorbing crap tone of damage with no support and taking little to no damage. Is there something I am missing because I have tried this and I usually end up as burning hulk. The thing is these are usually escorts defiants, and fleets and some BoPs. Is there a secret that I am missing? Maybe cryptic needs to take a look at the reverse movement penalty or make moving in reverse the same as moving forward, make the stationary defense penalty more though this will make tractor beams more a must have.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-16-2011, 09:42 AM
I don't think there are any issues with the system as it is.

I Stop and Turn and put it in reverse ALL the time. The trick is knowing when you can get away with it. Yes my defense rating is much lower when doing this. You want to make sure you have an Aegis set for the extra +10 defense. You really want to have the evasive space trait for another +10 defense rating.

Then its just not being dumb. you Don't STOP in the forward arc of a cannon firing escort. You don't go in reverse 4k off the broadside of a 8 beam tac cruiser.

However you DO... evasive from 15k out to about 1k off the backside of your victim... STOP. And UNLOAD.

The Key to being able to move backwards and stop is to mix it with High speed, and erratic / unpredictable behaviour. I'm sure plenty of people think I am flying like an idiot... until they realize I have kept DHC arc on them for 90% of the fight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-16-2011, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
I don't think there are any issues with the system as it is.

I Stop and Turn and put it in reverse ALL the time. The trick is knowing when you can get away with it. Yes my defense rating is much lower when doing this. You want to make sure you have an Aegis set for the extra +10 defense. You really want to have the evasive space trait for another +10 defense rating.

Then its just not being dumb. you Don't STOP in the forward arc of a cannon firing escort. You don't go in reverse 4k off the broadside of a 8 beam tac cruiser.

However you DO... evasive from 15k out to about 1k off the backside of your victim... STOP. And UNLOAD.

The Key to being able to move backwards and stop is to mix it with High speed, and erratic / unpredictable behaviour. I'm sure plenty of people think I am flying like an idiot... until they realize I have kept DHC arc on them for 90% of the fight.
I understand that. But I have also come up against escorts that are surviving and killing from either a full stand still or slight movement forward or backwards. I am talking 5 man focus and their shields are hardly scratched and their hull isn't moving. After some of what I have seen with game mechanics and "bugs" I tend to think that there is a lot more going on then just aegis and elusive traits. I really do not want to caste a wide net but lately after seeing the elusive cmdr Boff Exploit for myself on one of my characters it is kind of hard to explain things away as in I need to L2P.

You should know I may not be the most accomplished player and probably not even well respected since I stay on the fringes of the OPvP channel but the innuendos and known exploits that have been in game a long time are really starting to get on my last nerve. I know for the most part people in the OPvP channel and the ones that post here are on the up and up but it only takes a few for doubts to creep in.

On a side note I think it is kind of retarded you can turn faster in reverse then forward. Inertia and mass is the same in space no matter the direction.
Lt. Commander
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# 4
05-16-2011, 11:22 AM
Didn't mean my post as a L2P at all. I know you well enough to understand that wasn't the issue. Just posting some thoughts, I know I use my throttle and reverse thrust more then most. I don't think its that you turn faster in reverse as much as a well timed reverse will save you looping. Looping takes a long time. (against a moving target, more so) That quick brakes and slight angling in reverse isn't too crazy in my view anyway, it does take some practice to do properly.

As to your point of the bugs... you could well be right and someone may have found a new way to boast their defense or something like that. Nothing at all would shock me anymore. Flying against escorts I haven't noticed tons I was concerned about, your right though only takes one. Lets hope if there is one he reports it and at the very least keeps it too himself. (or as crazy as it sounds shelf it and hope Cryptic corrects it)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 5
05-16-2011, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Didn't mean my post as a L2P at all. I know you well enough to understand that wasn't the issue. Just posting some thoughts, I know I use my throttle and reverse thrust more then most. I don't think its that you turn faster in reverse as much as a well timed reverse will save you looping. Looping takes a long time. (against a moving target, more so) That quick brakes and slight angling in reverse isn't too crazy in my view anyway, it does take some practice to do properly.

As to your point of the bugs... you could well be right and someone may have found a new way to boast their defense or something like that. Nothing at all would shock me anymore. Flying against escorts I haven't noticed tons I was concerned about, your right though only takes one. Lets hope if there is one he reports it and at the very least keeps it too himself. (or as crazy as it sounds shelf it and hope Cryptic corrects it)

I didn't take your post as a L2P but I am sure they will follow
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-16-2011, 01:19 PM
Does make one wonder how an escort using turret style tactics survives without that bonus defense?

Oh well, I play to learn.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-16-2011, 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
I didn't take your post as a L2P but I am sure they will follow
L2P! :p

I am not aware of any special tricks pulling this off. If there are any tricks (or exploits!) to it, I have not noticed.

One thing that comes to my mind is that flying backwards probably doesn't mean a negative defense - you aren't stationary, after all. I suppose I should check my defense bonus when flying backwards to veryify this theory and check if there's anything unexpected going on...
My main Tact has the Elusive Trait and uses the Aegis set for optimum defense bonuses.

I learned throttle control relatively late in my tactical career, but it greatly improved my results. Being stationary or flying backwards obviously increases the amount of time you can hammer on your opponent. You are certainly in a weaker defensive position that way, so it seems to me you need to make sure to harden yourself (EPtS usually) and run when the big guns are coming for you. Don't hesitate to Evasive out. (Thouzgh sometimes I have used up my Evasive to avoid overshooting - reverse throttle, Evasive, and get some distance again. Maybe that is also unusually benefitial to defense?)

If there is anything beyond the above, I don't know.
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# 8
05-16-2011, 03:10 PM
If your ship is really fast, defense usually takes a second to lower (or raise) and you can usually pull off a '3 point turn' before it begins to lower, if you're quick.

Even in an Oberth with the standard engines, my defense is only below 9 (max is 11 for this ship) for less than 1 second while doing the maneuver.

Parking on the other hand... no, don't do it, unless you're in optimum position and not getting fired at.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-16-2011, 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krizonar
If your ship is really fast, defense usually takes a second to lower (or raise) and you can usually pull off a '3 point turn' before it begins to lower, if you're quick.

Even in an Oberth with the standard engines, my defense is only below 9 (max is 11 for this ship) for less than 1 second while doing the maneuver.

Parking on the other hand... no, don't do it, unless you're in optimum position and not getting fired at.
I am not talking about coming to a screeching halt I am talking ships just sitting and firing. I am talking a ship will hold off 5-6 ships focusing it with little to nothing for the 5 ships to show for it. Hull doesn't drop below 90% if you are lucky and their shields never get to 75%. Now like I said I may not be the most lethal escort but the circles i run in as a group is pretty good so it isn't the PuG factor.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 10
05-16-2011, 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Does make one wonder how an escort using turret style tactics survives without that bonus defense?

Oh well, I play to learn.
I know BoPs pioneered this tactic and for the most part you do not see many BoPs using it any more but I will say this I see more defiants and Fleet escorts using it effectively, "ahem" for their build.
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