Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-17-2011, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
You can use extended shields only on others, and its what i see on the tooltip if you asking that :-)
Thanks, I was curiuos.
Under those conditions (outside heals via ES) and the ability to self-stack resists, yeah this can make an Escort very nasty.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 22
05-17-2011, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
It takes just extended shields to make some escort semi-invulnerable. Extended shields III on my galaxy does 43% shield dmg reduction + shield heal. Thats better than even my own EpTS III.

But was it 5 ships agains one solo escort ? or was it in middle of arena and that escort in question had for example Era or any other good healer around ?

These escorts more often then not are by themselves. I understand a supported escort holding up under focus I am one myself but a solo Jim Kirk escort is a different story.
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Posts: 120
# 23
05-17-2011, 08:58 AM
I personally like to throw a ES on Jim Kirk escort types, and then read their bravado in chat how tough they are and how they rock too bad they did not notice the blue circle and me trying to stay in range with my flying space turtle.

But going back to orignal story. I think there is a cap on accuracy and there is no guarantee hit (95% max if i remember correctly) So even with negative defence you can "evade the hit" the difference is just in crit magnitute...if there are no crits, its just more successful hits.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-17-2011, 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
I personally like to throw a ES on Jim Kirk escort types, and then read their bravado in chat how tough they are and how they rock too bad they did not notice the blue circle and me trying to stay in range with my flying space turtle.

But going back to orignal story. I think there is a cap on accuracy and there is no guarantee hit (95% max if i remember correctly) So even with negative defence you can "evade the hit" the difference is just in crit magnitute...if there are no crits, its just more successful hits.
There is an interview on STOKed with CaptainGeko (IIRC) that explains more on Defense and Accuracy, and the explanations (and worksheets attached to the podcast) do not quite match this explanation.

Going by those sheets, the naive assumption that the hit chance is Base Accuracy (of 95) + Modifiers - Defense Rating is wrong. Instead, this value is added into yet another formula that determines hit chance, crit chance, and crit severity bonuses.

And unless I am totally mistaken, the only way to actually get a miss result is usually if your defense score exceeds the accuracy score. But the whole thing has me confused about how it actually works, since it doesn't seem to mesh my previous information, and I cannot even confirm it from in-game experiences. It would require some intensive testing I am too lazy to do.
Maybe BigRedJedi or Nagorak could enlighten us, but I am not sure they are on the case.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-17-2011, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
Ok, maybe some one can clear this up. I have started to see this more and more, ships either turreting in reverse or standing still or at low speed turning and absorbing crap tone of damage with no support and taking little to no damage. Is there something I am missing because I have tried this and I usually end up as burning hulk. The thing is these are usually escorts defiants, and fleets and some BoPs.
There are always a few unresolved exploits in the game; they fixed the double shield stacking thing, for instance, but I think if you had more than one shield equipped at the time, nothing made them unequip. So there may still be people running around with two or three shields sploited on from back in the day. I also wonder if something weird happened in a recent patch like reverse speed doing a power boost instead of a power drain or something. Doesn't seem to be any obvious reason why that would happen, but there have been stranger bugs.
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# 26
05-17-2011, 11:40 AM
Single Data Point. Flying backwards, I get a Bonus Defense of ~40 % at 52 energy (base 25, 52 with bonuses), with a Tactical Escort Retrofit and a Captain with the Elusive Trait.

Evasive and similar skills boost this, of course.
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# 27
05-17-2011, 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Single Data Point. Flying backwards, I get a Bonus Defense of ~40 % at 52 energy (base 25, 52 with bonuses), with a Tactical Escort Retrofit and a Captain with the Elusive Trait.

Evasive and similar skills boost this, of course.
Most every time i go reverse, it's with evasive maneuvers or APO. Batteries help too, the negative drain kind of lags so if you hit a batt in anything then switch power settings you'll still have a surplus of energy floating as you go into the negative and it will take longer to get to a point where it's really detrimental to your defensive capabilities. That combined with rotating your shield facings does wonders.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
05-17-2011, 12:07 PM
The reverse power drain is still there and its still a drain. It has always taken around 3-5 seconds or so to kick in. I always assumed that was quite intended. Reverse is good for a short time but not extended. However keep in mind the reverse power drain is weak. I have flown backwards for extended periods, including full impulsing in reverse... I admit I was being somewhat of a ker rat jerk at the time. (ffo elpoep sessip yllaer ...sdrawkcab enoz otni gnihtyreve gnipyt dna sdrawkcab gniylF) Point is the reverse power drain is not very harsh, a bat and EPTE will counter the drop pretty easily.

In general escorts have had much more tank in general lately. The new tac team gives all those tac heavy fed escorts a very viable shield tank strad... I mean EPTS 2 + Tac Team 1..... 15-20 seconds later TSS 2 + tac team 1.... 20 seconds later Tac team 1.... 15 seconds later EPTS 2 + Tac Team 1...
Throw in a Full power to shields between fights and you can be running around with very hard full shields for a long time.

On the note of the previous bug... All that would need to happen would be for Cryptic to state that they will be looking at the accounts of anyone reported to be possibly doing this and banning people. I bet if this is possible they would get unequipped pronto.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 29
05-17-2011, 12:15 PM
I fly a Defiant-R as a Human Science Captain (+Astrophysicist & Techie) and tested this in system space with full the Full Aegis set. I ran a few short scenarios and jotted down a little of the information I found. Smarter folks can make of it what they will.

Quote:
Engine Power: 109/100
Speed: Stopped Impulse 0.00
DEF: -15%

Engine Power: 109/100
Speed: Forward Impulse 50.18
DEF: 80%
Evasive Maneuvers:
Speed: Forward Impulse 201.2
DEF: 95%

Attack Pattern: Omega
Speed: Forward impulse 95.43
DEF: 96.5%

Engine Power: 109/100
Speed: Reverse from Forward Impulse 12.55
DEF: 50.1%

Engine Power: 84/100
Speed: Reverse Impulse (@25 second Power Drain cap) 10.05
DEF: 42.2%
Evasive Maneuvers:
Speed: Reverse Impulse 39.02
DEF: 95%

Attack Pattern: Omega
Speed: Reverse Impulse (@25 second Power Drain cap) 18.74
DEF: 85.4%
As we've always known, the worst thing you can do is completely stop moving (hello negative DEF) and moving forward at full speed grants the most DEF (although I "tested" significantly above cap). When going from full power forward to full reverse, the power drain doesn't kick in for several seconds and while the speed drops significantly the DEF doesn't drop that much. After 25 seconds of Reverse, your power drain reaches it's cap leaving you with a very slight reduction of speed and a small reduction in DEF.

Even with my set up there is only a 50% reduction in DEF going from forward to reverse (with full power drain Debuff). Also, it's important to remember that you can cancel out the power drain debuff simply by coming to a stop and then going into reverse again.
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# 30
05-17-2011, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
Also, it's important to remember that you can cancel out the power drain debuff simply by coming to a stop and then going into reverse again.
It still seems to take a moment to recover the energy, but this could also be a good way to avoid suffering drain in the first place, or minimizing its effect (just switch between full stop and reverse.)
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