Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101 Sorry, opposed.
05-29-2011, 08:04 PM
Speaking in character:

Admiral, with great respect, I must voice my dissent of this treaty. While the intentions are noble, the price is too high. Certainly the Federation sorely underestimated the threat posed by the Undine, but that does not in any way excuse the Klingon Empire's brutal subjugation of other alien species. To condone those actions flies in the very face of everything the Federation stands for. Not every Gorn was an Undine infiltrator and there were many innocents killed in the Klingon invasion.

Furthermore, to openly support the Klingon Empire in a war with the Romulans again strays from the principles of the Federation. The Romulan Empire is all but decimated. Romulus is gone, the Reman's are rebelling, the Romulan Navy is in shambles and now Empress Sela herself is MIA. While the Federation has offered aid and assistance to the displaced Romulans and Remans, what have the Klingon's done? Charged in at warp speed to conquer the vunerable territories and populace.

These are hardly the acts of trustworthy allies, sir. While I certainly share the desire for peace, trust must be earned, it cannot be blindly given away. Especially in the face of such great threats such as the Undine and Borg. With such powerful forces on our front doorstep, we CANNOT be looking over our shoulders to see if our Klingon "allies" are preparing to give us a bat'leth in the back.

Do not think for one moment that if Sol had inexplicably gone nova and various groups within the Federation began to grow discontent, that the Klingon Empire would have cheerfully left us alone. Quite the opposite, we would be in the exact position the Romulans are in at this very moment.

And bear in mind, even as we speak, there are Klingon raids occuring in Federation sectors all through the Pi Canis block. The Klingons respect strength, not cowardice. They have pushed into the Pi Canis block, the last thing we should do is allow them any territory. They will simply push in even further.

My proposal, a non-agression pact. Re-establish a neutral zone and see how well they respect that border. There is nothing that says we have to be united allies to cooperate for mutual survival. Surely the Empire and the Federation can work together on the joint task of detecting Undine without resorting to surrendering territory and forking over concessions. The Klingons are violent, but they are not stupid. They see the danger the Undine and the Borg represent and they have already agreed to assist us in the sectors that make up Gamma Orionis, that alone gives me a glimmer of hope that we will ultimately work past our differences.

But this treaty is too much too soon and it forgives a multitude of sins for which the Klingons must be held accountable. I'm sorry, Admiral, I must vote "nay".

Respectfully,

Captain Hayden
Commanding Officer
U.S.S. Excalibur, NCC-166400-A

------------------------------------------------------

Speaking in game terms:

Allow a neutral zone where players can identify whether or not they have hostile intentions. This allows for Pvp along the border. Also, the Klingon sectors in-game are far from finished. There is much that maybe added to the Empire in later releases. Who knows how vast Klingon territory will be once the final touches are put on it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
05-29-2011, 09:19 PM
Both sides have made mistakes it is time to move forward, many Federation members and the entire Federation leadership desires peace, it is time to move past our mistakes and any mistrust that may exist and focus on the real threat, the real enemy the Undine and The Borg, you should trust us because we sincerely want this, When we were allied we had glorious victories, If we dont unite we will be divded and the Borg or The Undine will sweep through our territories or what about the Iconians when they come we know very little about them but we do know they are incredibly advanced. We have unified at battle group omega, right now this treaty is still in the negotiating stages, where each side is stating what they want and what they need and what they would like to get, No doubt both sides have had bumps in the road but we are nothing like the Romulans we dont desire war or the slaughter of civilians, however now that war is upon us all we must act and we must unite against the common enemy, the Undine and the Borg which we both agree is the real threat.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 103
05-29-2011, 09:39 PM
You do have valid points I think we should establish a neutral zone where no ships would be allowed in except to go to bases that are jointly run. Your are most certainly right about the Romulans everything is in disarray with them in order to help them we should move in into all the parts of the Iota Pavonis sector block and declare it under Federation Protection so we can help the Romulans this way we can set up more bases and hospitals and deliver aid much more quickly, unfortunately any Romulan resistance must be dealt with as they are currently attacking Federation Vessels and this is unacceptable, and we would work with the Klingon Empire to make sure the citizens of the Psi Velorum block are treated fairly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
05-29-2011, 10:39 PM
Ok, two things about that treaty.
1. The Federation does not support the war with the Romulans. We do not condemn, but I don't think that we need to be helping them.

2. What is the mempa sector?

Other than those two things, the treaty is starting to look pretty decent.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
05-30-2011, 01:11 AM
I don't normally go for RP, but this begs for rebuttal...

Kha'tak, of the House of Mi'QogH:

Simpering, Federation dogs! You come to us with your honeyed words and empty promises, expecting our mighty Empire to sit down and 'negotiate' a peace... A peace that, but for your stubborn blindness to the threat of the Undine, might have been maintained long before now! Now, you drag sorry carcass of your once-mighty Federation, to the gates of Qo'noS, eyes downcast and shoulders slumped, like the sniveling runt of a Targ litter.

Where were your 'promises of cooperation' and offers of aid when our Chancellor brought indisputable evidence of the Undine infiltration of the Gorn to your precious Federation? Where was the mighty Starfleet, when the warriors of the Empire laid siege to the worlds of the manipulated Gorn? Did the Federation even acknowledge that there might be a threat?! NO! As always, your vaunted 'diplomats' sat behind their negotiating tables and condemned our rightful war against the threat of the Undine, while the true warriors, the descendants of Kahless, were earning their honor in glorious combat!

Now, your diplomats come again, with a list of 'concessions' contained within another so-called 'Treaty', and you expect our mighty Empire to simply swallow its pride and deface its honor by agreeing to... What is the hu-man expression? "Forgive and forget?" HA! You must think us fools... Or you simply have learned nothing in all the years since first our peoples met. A Klingon may forgive, when honor dictates such, toward a worthy adversary, but a Klingon does not forget. We do NOT forget, that when the Federation could have stood at our side, bled, in honor, alongside us, as we faced the Undine threat, you chose to condemn us, and accuse us of warmongering... For this reason alone, your treaty is a coward's folly.

More telling, however, are the 'concessions' that your Federation seems ready to make... Concessions that, in any other time, would make absolutely no sense... But now... Now they tell us that your once-mighty Federation is spread thin, fighting too many worthy foes at once, and it has drained you... Drained you to the point of weakness. Weakness cannot be tolerated, as it is the place of the mighty to supplant the weak! The Empire will not agree to let you 'cede territory' to us, when we can TAKE it from you, and far more! The Alpha Quadrant is threatened like never before, and if the Federation is too weak to face the foes that descend upon it, then the Empire will wipe the Federation away, and stand firm, in the face of ALL enemies!

From the gates of Qo'noS to the gates of Gre'thor, our warriors shall triumph, in honor and glory! The tales of our valor shall rock the halls of Sto'Vo'Kor for ages to come! Tales of our victories over the Federation and all others that threaten the Empire!

Flee, foolish PetaQ! Flee to your precious Federation and warn them that the Klingon Empire is coming, and if they have any honor remaining, they will meet their deaths with dignity, in glorious battle!

Qapla'!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
05-30-2011, 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedJedi
I don't normally go for RP, but this begs for rebuttal...

Kha'tak, of the House of Mi'QogH:

Simpering, Federation dogs! You come to us with your honeyed words and empty promises, expecting our mighty Empire to sit down and 'negotiate' a peace... A peace that, but for your stubborn blindness to the threat of the Undine, might have been maintained long before now! Now, you drag sorry carcass of your once-mighty Federation, to the gates of Qo'noS, eyes downcast and shoulders slumped, like the sniveling runt of a Targ litter.

Where were your 'promises of cooperation' and offers of aid when our Chancellor brought indisputable evidence of the Undine infiltration of the Gorn to your precious Federation? Where was the mighty Starfleet, when the warriors of the Empire laid siege to the worlds of the manipulated Gorn? Did the Federation even acknowledge that there might be a threat?! NO! As always, your vaunted 'diplomats' sat behind their negotiating tables and condemned our rightful war against the threat of the Undine, while the true warriors, the descendants of Kahless, were earning their honor in glorious combat!

Now, your diplomats come again, with a list of 'concessions' contained within another so-called 'Treaty', and you expect our mighty Empire to simply swallow its pride and deface its honor by agreeing to... What is the hu-man expression? "Forgive and forget?" HA! You must think us fools... Or you simply have learned nothing in all the years since first our peoples met. A Klingon may forgive, when honor dictates such, toward a worthy adversary, but a Klingon does not forget. We do NOT forget, that when the Federation could have stood at our side, bled, in honor, alongside us, as we faced the Undine threat, you chose to condemn us, and accuse us of warmongering... For this reason alone, your treaty is a coward's folly.

More telling, however, are the 'concessions' that your Federation seems ready to make... Concessions that, in any other time, would make absolutely no sense... But now... Now they tell us that your once-mighty Federation is spread thin, fighting too many worthy foes at once, and it has drained you... Drained you to the point of weakness. Weakness cannot be tolerated, as it is the place of the mighty to supplant the weak! The Empire will not agree to let you 'cede territory' to us, when we can TAKE it from you, and far more! The Alpha Quadrant is threatened like never before, and if the Federation is too weak to face the foes that descend upon it, then the Empire will wipe the Federation away, and stand firm, in the face of ALL enemies!

From the gates of Qo'noS to the gates of Gre'thor, our warriors shall triumph, in honor and glory! The tales of our valor shall rock the halls of Sto'Vo'Kor for ages to come! Tales of our victories over the Federation and all others that threaten the Empire!

Flee, foolish PetaQ! Flee to your precious Federation and warn them that the Klingon Empire is coming, and if they have any honor remaining, they will meet their deaths with dignity, in glorious battle!

Qapla'!
(Answering as Joined Trill Q'in) The more things change, the more they stay the same. In the time I've lived with 17 different hosts, one thing has stayed consistant...Klingon posturing in the face of annihilation. Do you think that insults will sway ones such as the Borg for example? Honor mean anything to them? They are as a hive of wasps...and your empire is nothing more than an exploitable resource...and not just your materiel possesions...but your bodies as well. And think...assimilation is akin to undeath. Doesn't look like a promising ticket to Sto'vo'kor ...does it?

Then we have the Undine/Species 8472. They view us a a pestilence. We are but termites in the wood of their universe as far as they are concerned. Detecting them is difficult, their ships are powerful...and there is no arguing honor and such with them. They just want us dead.

Then, finally we have the Iconians. What little we know of them makes them out to be a bigger threat than the Borg and the Undine combined. But instead of focusing our efforts on these threats with our full attention, we bicker amongst ourself, making their job all the much easier. A mission on P'jem I participated in comes to mind. When we transported an "Ambassador to said planet, Klingons blockaged us stating that it was an Undine infiltrator. Very perceptive, only to have that same infiltrator fool you and claim I was an Undine while it wore the "skin" of a General of yours. All it took was its word, and your people sprang to action.

With the Borg, they captured and assimilated quite a number of your ships along with its crew in the Vorn system. And we lowly federation dogs, as you and yours so eloquently call us, came to your aid. For what? to be insulted for us making the same mistakes your Empire has made? Fine, you don't want a treaty? So be it. When your Empire either falls from with in due to the Undine...get obliterated by the Iconians...or become as living cadavers as a result of borg assimilation, you can go knowing your "honor " was satisfied.

P.S. How do you say "We are the Borg, you will be assimilated. Resistance is futile." in Klingon? Reason I ask is I expect to be hearing that alot soon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
05-30-2011, 01:42 AM
From an mmo point of view we would need another major faction or factions to be opposed to the Federation / Klingon Alliance.

Borg / Undine as playable races (Not as allies)
Cardassian / Romulan (Possible allies)


For Borg you could play as a "unique representative" of the borg much like Locutus and 7 of 9 prior to her liberation from the collective. A new strategy to bring more species into the collective. Players would act as subunits of unimatrix 01.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
05-30-2011, 03:27 AM
*** Extracted from the computer log of the U.S.S. Excalibur, NCC-166400-A ***

Captain Hayden sat alone in the briefing room watching the daily broadcast of the Galactic News Network. Just as the entry doors hissed open to reveal his first officer, Commander Stragey, Hayden slapped the toggle killing the triangular display with a frustrated sigh. “Bad news day, sir?” Stragey asked.

Hayden shook his head. “It’s this treaty Admiral Black’s been proposing.” “Ahh,” said Stragey, not bothering to inquire further. He’d had more than one unpleasant conversation with his CO about the recent affairs of galactic politics, but Hayden continued. “After listening to the news, it doesn’t sound like the Klingons are eager to lay down their guns any more than we are.”

Stragey clasped his hands behind his back and prepared for another bout of jousting. “I thought Admiral Black claimed there was support for the treaty within the Empire.” Hayden turned to face his first officer and said sternly, “From what I’ve seen there may be and I have to stress may be some support for a non-aggression pact within the Empire. But Admiral Black is proposing a full blown alliance, complete with jointly constructed starbases and possibly even joint subjugation of the Romulans!”

Abandoning the diplomatic approach, Stragey pulled up a chair and sat down to face his captain. “I’m sure that’s not what Admiral Black is proposing, sir. He’s simply suggesting that both the Federation and the Empire jointly focus their efforts on locating the Undine infiltrators and preparing for the impending Borg encounters. Forgive me for being blunt, sir, but that’s hardly a bad idea.”

“In principle, I agree with you,” said Hayden, “but we can and have, I might add, done that already in the Gamma Orionis sectors. Establishing borders with the Empire in the hopes of reducing hostilities, I can support. But handing over territory to them and blindly forgiving their actions of the past several decades, and even apologizing to them for daring to take a stand against their barbarism in the first place, all in the name of peace? That, I cannot support.”

Stragey sighed, conceding defeat. There was little he could do to sway Hayden when he was in one of these moods. “Knowing you, I suppose you voiced your objections to Admiral Black personnally?” At that, Hayden flashed a sheepish grin. “As a matter of fact, I sent him the subspace message yesterday.” “Oh boy,” said Stragey, rolling his eyes, “How’d that go over?” Hayden thought for a moment and then unexpectedly asked, “You’re up for a command of your own fairly soon, right?” “I suppose so,” said Stragey, not entirely sure where Hayden was going, “though, I hadn’t really planned on leaving the Excalibur anytime soon, sir.”

“Well,” said Hayden, “when Admiral Black busts me back to Commander and hands you the Excalibur, just remember, I’ll make you a great first officer.” After a brief laugh, Stragey asked, “So the admiralty dismissed your objections, eh?” Hayden nodded. “You had something to report?” Stragey leaned back and began his summary of the damage sustained in the Excalibur’s last conflict…
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 109
05-30-2011, 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralBlack10 View Post
The UFP also admits that the KE saw the threat of the Undine before the UFP did and that the UFP was wrong for condemning the KE invasion of the Gorn Hedgemony.
I'm so glad to finally see a Federation Admiral, no less, admitting that the violent invasion and total subjugation of the Gorn Confederacy was not only an admirable act but even justified given that their leader had been replaced by an Undyne shapeshifter. So many on the Federation side of things have been saying, "Good God, you people are monsters, look at all the dead civilians" and "The Undyne imposter was just a thin pretext latched upon by a violent sociopath bent on dominating the Galaxy. If there had been no Undyne, Jempok would have found some other reason to invade his neighbors."

Thank you for seeing reason, yes, on behalf of the KDF, I will gladly accept the access codes to get into the deepest parts of Federation space, I will happily take your material aid in building an even larger fleet of ships with which to invade and subjugate our neighbors, and if you want to help us finish off the honor-less Romulans while they're still reeling from the loss of their homeworld and internal strife, that's okay too. Your territorial concessions will serve as a wonderful launching point for our next campaign and the security of the Empire will be assured with the shipyards at Mars working full time to produce the best Klingon ships in the galaxy.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 110
05-30-2011, 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
I'm so glad to finally see a Federation Admiral, no less, admitting that the violent invasion and total subjugation of the Gorn Confederacy was not only an admirable act but even justified given that their leader had been replaced by an Undyne shapeshifter. So many on the Federation side of things have been saying, "Good God, you people are monsters, look at all the dead civilians" and "The Undyne imposter was just a thin pretext latched upon by a violent sociopath bent on dominating the Galaxy. If there had been no Undyne, Jempok would have found some other reason to invade his neighbors."

Thank you for seeing reason, yes, on behalf of the KDF, I will gladly accept the access codes to get into the deepest parts of Federation space, I will happily take your material aid in building an even larger fleet of ships with which to invade and subjugate our neighbors, and if you want to help us finish off the honor-less Romulans while they're still reeling from the loss of their homeworld and internal strife, that's okay too. Your territorial concessions will serve as a wonderful launching point for our next campaign and the security of the Empire will be assured with the shipyards at Mars working full time to produce the best Klingon ships in the galaxy.

Your comments while sarcastic and funny have valid points in them, I do not condone the mass killing of civilians at any time, no do I condone the killing of civilians in general. However the Klingon saw the Undine for the real threat they are and invaded. I have not seen any evidence of Klingon Massacres against the Gorn civilian population or any evidence of other war crimes, I assure you if I am presented with evidence of any war crime immediate action will be taken by me and the Federation and we will pursue the matter diplomatically with the Klingon Empire. Now it has been said because we desire peace that it means we are weak this is not true, we desire to peace to unite against the real threats out there, I would like to point that it is easy to keep this war going and for us to be fighting each other for quite sometime. It is much harder however to unite as one and fight the real threat of the Borg and The Undine, We are not weak in any way shape or form but we are trying to unite and build up our forces now because the Borg and the Undine are here and G-D knows what will happen once the Iconians come so we need to build up our forces now. Why do you think the Undine sent in infiltrators to learn about us to study us once that is complete they will invade and what do you think will happen then huh?
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