Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
05-21-2011, 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12guageshotgun
You do know that the federation front is one of the smaller wars at the moment for the KDF, with each passing day we get closer to completing the other campagns, the federation can not hope to stand against the might of the entire klingon empire!
Yeah prepearing agaisnt the Federation while they save Klingon Empire more than once, for example by destroying Borgified Romulan Ships.
How honorable.

The Empire btw is not the only intergalactical empire fighting on several fronts, the Federation does too and is far more effective and faster in getting new space than the empire. Plus we don't have to rebuilt something we have destroyed in an act of sway.
Our scientists are far better to, enabeling us to research new technology a lot quicker than the empire does.
No matter what the threat is the Federation will always stand up against it and never loose or ask others for help, because we are able to help ourselves.
Certain other, and I'm no talking Romulans here, Empires have proven that they can't even withstand the explosion of a single moon without needing to rely on the others. I may also remeber that the Empire would have long ago fallen into great dishonor by joining forces with Romulans if the Federation had not exposed Sela's plans.
I will furthermore remember that the Klingon-Federation Alliance was build on an act of honor on the side of the Federation, namely a certain ship helping a helpless Klingon outpost defending itself against a romulan attack squadron, which would have, as they were unprepeared and not able to fight back, given them a first class ticket to Gre'thor.

here is another one:
A Federation vessel saved an old Klingon vessel where everyone on board was in stasis from a dishonorable act of attacking an ally.

And there was another act like this:
namely giving the Empire the technology to heal a certain Borg nanovirus, again saving Klingons from falling into dishonor.
(There is at least one more example, but that would be a spoiler from tribble).
All of these without getting anything in return.

So when was the Federation last in need of help from the Empire, where the empire didn't ask for anything in return?
I believe it was just one time during the 24th century when captain Picard had to ask Chancellor Gowron for a Cloaked Vessel.

So the Empire should start thinking about claiming that the Federation is less honorable than they are, what at least two Klingon leaders, do ex officio.
The only thing that war brought the Empire was tearing the most powerful and resilent force in the whole quadrant apart. While the Empire's future is uncertain, the Federations is that of those who will definitely NOT perish in the forseeable future.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
05-21-2011, 08:03 PM
Please no arguing the point is we need a peace treaty now we need to unite as one, each side Federation and Klingon has its merits and has its problems. Only as one can we stand against the Borg an The Undine soon I will be posting the treaty in both forums and it will be ratified. This treaty will divide BOrg and UNdine space evenly between the Federation and The Klingon Empire, This treaty will guarantee peace in our time. NOw let us unite and fight against the real threat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
05-21-2011, 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Dracon_Darknight View Post
Yeah prepearing agaisnt the Federation while they save Klingon Empire more than once, for example by destroying Borgified Romulan Ships.
How honorable.

The Empire btw is not the only intergalctical empire fighting on Several fronts, the federation does too and is far more effective and faster in getting new space than the empire. Plus we don't have to rebuilt something we have destroyed in an act of sway.
Our scientists are far better to, enabeling us to research new technology a lot quicker than the empire does.
No matter what the threat is the Federation will always stand up against it and never loose or ask others for help, because we are able to help ourselves.
Certain other, and I'm no talking Romulans here, Empires have proven that they can't even withstand the explosion of a single moon without needing to rely on the others. I may also remeber that the Empire would have long ago fallen into great dishonor by joining forces with Romulans if the Federation had not exposed Sela's plans.
I will furthermore remember that the Klingon-Federation Alliance was build on an act of honor on the side of the Federation, namely a certain ship helping a helpless Klingon Outpost defending itself against a romulan attack squadron, which would have, as they were unprepeared and not able to fight back, given them a first class ticket to Gre'thor.

here is another one:
A federation Vessel saved an old klingon Vessel where everyone on board was in stasis from a dishonorable act of attacking an ally.

And there was another act like this:
namely giving the Empire the technology to heal a certain Borg Nanovirus, again saving Klingons from falling into dishonor.
(There is at least one more example, but that would be a spoiler from tribble).
All of these without getting anything in return.

So when was the Federation last in need of help from the Empire, where the empire didn't ask for anything in return?
I believe it was just one time during the 24th century when Captain picard had to ask Chancellor Gowron for a Cloaked Vessel.

So the Empire should start thinking about claiming that the Federation is less honorable than they are, what at least two Klingon Leaders, do ex officio.
The only thing that war brought the Empire was tearing the most powerful and resilent force in the whole quadrant apart. While the Empire's future is uncertain, the Federations is that of those who will definitely NOT perish in the forseeable future.
I can tell that nothing will convinve you that the klingons are not "orks" in space, i will agree the federation has its merits, but what this is about is over looking those flaws, and no the federation is not in open war on multiple fronts, conflicts and open war are 2 very different things in the grand picture. because you had a skrimish with some romulans does not mean that you are at war with them. Besides the federation is not who we are after IT IS THE UNDINE they are the ones who need to die. the federation has simply decided to protect them from the wrath of the empire and we are not yet willing to destroy a former ally.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
05-22-2011, 01:49 AM
Anyway you slice it there can be no peace with the Federation. From a game point of view everything revolves around the conflict between the federation and klingons.

From a rp/lore point of view. The federation sided against the klingons when they invaded cardassian space. Like Gowron said "You sided against us in battle, this we do not forget or forgive" Those were not idle words. In doing so the Federation betrayed the Klingon Empire. Though they rejoined to fight the dominion, that was not something to be forgotten. Once again the Klingon Empire invaded gorn space, in response the Federation sided against the klingon Empire betraying them yet again. Klingons do not forget such things. Only an act of GREAT sacrifice on the part of the federation to protect the Klingon Empire, could possibly renew the alliance. At this point it is the only thing that would work.

Just for the record if they would do something like that, i would NOT want the kdf to become apart of the federation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
05-22-2011, 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12guageshotgun
I can tell that nothing will convinve you that the klingons are not "orks" in space, i will agree the federation has its merits, but what this is about is over looking those flaws, and no the federation is not in open war on multiple fronts, conflicts and open war are 2 very different things in the grand picture. because you had a skrimish with some romulans does not mean that you are at war with them. Besides the federation is not who we are after IT IS THE UNDINE they are the ones who need to die. the federation has simply decided to protect them from the wrath of the empire and we are not yet willing to destroy a former ally.
I never said war we are involved in several wars, I said fighting at several fronts, thats a difference.
And no, i don't think Klingons are Spaceorks.
And no the Federation did not choose to protect Undine, the Federation chose to no kill people until their guilt is proven. (In dubio pro reo)
A good example is the attack on Ambassador Soketh, while the Klingon captain's claim evinced to be true, he vehemently refused to show any kind of proof and decided to attack a Federation ship.
The Federation refuses the Idea of Drumhead trails as well as the idea of revitalizing the Inquision.
I would further propose to inprision a certain chancellor for a while, he might turn out to be the biggest undine we have ever seen. Just think about it, scientifically:
A person from a weak house becomes chancellor, by beating one of the mightiest Klingon warriors, and holds his power with the help of a dishonored house.
I wouldn't say the odds for something like that are pretty high.

[Quoute=Sworoth]
Anyway you slice it there can be no peace with the Federation. From a game point of view everything revolves around the conflict between the federation and klingons.

From a rp/lore point of view. The federation sided against the klingons when they invaded cardassian space. Like Gowron said "You sided against us in battle, this we do not forget or forgive" Those were not idle words. In doing so the Federation betrayed the Klingon Empire. Though they rejoined to fight the dominion, that was not something to be forgotten. Once again the Klingon Empire invaded gorn space, in response the Federation sided against the klingon Empire betraying them yet again. Klingons do not forget such things. Only an act of GREAT sacrifice on the part of the federation to protect the Klingon Empire, could possibly renew the alliance. At this point it is the only thing that would work.

Just for the record if they would do something like that, i would NOT want the kdf to become apart of the federation[/quote]

No one wants the KDF to become a part of the Federation, its about the alliance.
We never sided with anyone btw, to condamn something and actively fighting against it is something completely different.
And the game does not just revolve around the Klingon-Fed conflict, the only thing that does is pvp and I'd like to quote myself regarding that:

[quote="Myself_from_the_federation_counter_part_of_ this_thread"
You could make the Klingons participate in Federation wargames.
The mere fact that nobody dies doesn't make a battle less honoarble.
Practice makes prepeared, prepeared people can archieve more honor in their life than unprepeared people dying fast....
[/quote]

Thats also a great chance to (finally) add some phasing into this game
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I will support a treaty. I believe that the war has gone on long enough, to realize that since nobody has been gaining any significant ground, that we can call a truce. I am not sure I am willing to give up Pi Canis for it, but maybe we can work out a treaty. I don't think the Federation need to say it was wrong condemning the Gorn invasion, but I think we could have taken a more diplomatic approach, as just say, "We won't support you, but we don't condemn you either" But it is defiantly time for joint missions against the Borg and the Undine. (Those big carriers would be awesome to have as allies) Having Deep Space 9 as a command center is a great idea, as it i relatively close to the transwarp gate. As said before, I don't think this would really have any effect on PvP, as you have Fed Vs. Fed, so Fed Vs. Klingon would just be another battle testing scenario. All in all, I do think that it is definitely time for negotiations to start back up, so that we can do some joint missions together.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
05-22-2011, 09:17 AM
The KDF will not become part of the Federation they may govern there territories as they wish, what is important is unity we can all sit here all day and go this is wrong and that was wrong or you shouldnt have done this or that, it wont change anything and it wont get us anywhere now is the time for unity, we all agree the Borg and The Undine are a threat, a very real threat which affects us all so now is the time to cast aside our differences and unite as one and go to battle as one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
05-22-2011, 11:52 AM
I agree more so based on the its easier to do STF and other activities when you can get 5 together from both factions instead of just one. Also many fleets have both a fed and klink fleet. Sure the devs can come up with a pretty cool story that draws it together. Maybe have Enterprise E and hopefully Data show up and with the help of Worf assemble a fleet of both Federation (lead by Data) and Klingon (lead by Worf) ships to battle and you get to assist in the mission as one of the ships assigned to join the fleet. That be a nice way to hatch a treaty out, kick it off with both sides being drawn together to fight a common foe (Borg, Undine. Iconians, or whoever).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
05-22-2011, 12:47 PM
love the idea of peace i would love to fight along side our klingon brothers
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
05-23-2011, 05:03 AM
I think the competitive aspect of two factions at war is too much of a draw to be peace treatied away. Lets face it, people like to hate and an 'us versus them' mentality is built into our DNA. Plus, for this one post suggesting we give peace a chance, I can probably find five asking for 'capturable zones' to make the war feel more real and engaging.

I'm always in favor of any idea being posted in the feedback section, it's what it's for after all, but it looks like more player feedback is saying that we want to be a house divided when the Iconians come.

Not to say there isn't some good to be found in this idea too or some compromise to give everybody what they want. While they're adding "capturable PVP zones" to the game they could be taking end game PVE zones and making them "cooperative." Isolated spots on the map that represent the largest threats to the quadrant where temporary alliances are formed between Federation and Klingon. This becomes a particularly good idea when/if they introduce a third faction and the game population becomes even more split.
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