Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 KDF Science Ships
05-22-2011, 07:12 AM
This post was initially made as a repy to this thread.
However I decided to post it elsewere considering it became more like a suggestion then an actual reply.

First of I do not care if Feds get some kind of none cloaking BoP type ship, but please do not forget that the Federation is at war with almost everybody except its own members so where in this picture will the Feds be able to “borrow” a Battle Cloaking devices from the romulans? Are you not afraid the Romulans or Remans are going to need them for themselves and start shooting at you?

Anyway I have overlooked the claim that the KDF is so good and the Feds are so weak, that I why I have compiled a list of vessels currently available in this game arranged by its Bridge Officer arrangement. Amount of weapons, hull, devices and all that junk is not interesting… It is the BOff arrangement which makes people choose the ship not the looks. Mostly that is.

Lieutenant/Ensign: Feds have 3 more choices (not counting skins)
Feds: NX-01, TOS Constitution, Oberth and the 3 Miranda skins
KDF: 2 B’rel skins

Lt.Commander: Neither has more real choices (not counting skins)
Feds: 3 Escort, 3 Cruiser, 3 Science ship
KDF: 1 Raptor, 1 BoP, 1 Battlecruiser

Commander: Feds have 2 more choices (not counting skins).
Feds: 3 Heavy Escort, 3 Heavy Cruiser, 3 Research SV, Adv. Heavy Cruiser, Adv. Research SV
KDF: 1 Raptor, 1 BoP, 2 Battlecruiser

Captain: Neither has more real choices (not counting skins)
Feds: 3 Tactical Escorts, 3 Exploration Cruisers, 3 Long Range Science Vessels
KDF: 1 Raptor, 1 BoP, 2 Battlecruiser

Rear Admiral / Brigadier General: Feds have 3 more choices (not counting skins).
Feds:
3 Advanced Escort
3 Fleet Escort
4 Assault Cruiser (incl Dreadnought Cruiser)
3 Star Cruiser
2 Advanced Heavy Cruiser retrofit
3 Reconnaissance Science Vessel
3 Deepspace Science Vessel
3 Advanced Research Science Vessel retrofit (incl. D’Kyr SV)
KDF:
2 Heavy Raptor
2 Heavy Bird of Prey
1 Battle Cruiser
1 Battle Cruiser retrofit
2 Carrier

Vice Admiral: KDF have 1 more choice (not counting skins).
Feds:
3 Tactical Escort retrofit
1 Multi-Vector Advanced Escort
2 Exploration Cruiser Retrofit
3 Long Range Science Vessel retrofit
KDF:
1 Varanus Fleet Support Vessel Gorn
2 B’Rel Bird of Prey retrofit (Klingon)
1 Guramba Siege Destroyer (Nausican)
1 Marauder Patrol Cruiser (Orion)
1 Kar’Fi Battle Carrier (Fek’Ihri)

All ships above listed were done so by using the perfect put together charts made by Spidermitch.


Those that have the same boff arrangement are not listed separately, despite of having potentially additional abilities like the Galaxy-X has the Spinal Lance and Cloaking device.

During the game before reaching T5 as you can see the Federation have 5 additional ship choices (not counting skins) and I would hope that in time the KFD could at least get 3 real Science Vessels.
1 at Lt.Commander (1 Lt Sci, 1 Ens.Sci, 1 Ens.Eng, 1 Ens. Tac).
1 at Commander (1 Lt.Cmd Sci, 1 Ens Sci, 1 Lt. Eng, 1 Lt. Tac)
1 at Captain (1.Cmd Sci, 1 Lt Sci, 1 Lt. Eng, 1 Lt. Tac)
So that Science Captains for a change can have their own ships to fly instead of always the BoP due to its Uni-Boff arrangements (which always misses 1 ability).

[edit] Removed due to lack of vission

Please do not let this be a discussion about wanting more skins...
KDF ships look perfect from creation they do not need alterations to make them look better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-22-2011, 08:47 AM
As loathe as I am to criticize any call for more KDF options, I'm afraid I disagree.

The way I see it, we're set up in an interesting way> Feds can field the best Cruisers, which use Engineering skills, they get Efficient Boffs, which overtly benefit Cruisers/Engineers, and they have the most Cruisers.

The KDF, on the other hand, has the best Tactical ships, the BoPs & Raptors, their Battle Cruisers have a more Tactical edge, they all have Cloaking Devices (except for the Carriers, or the Nausicaan, Gorn, & Orion ships) which encourage ambush tactics and first strikes.

I'm hoping that the Romulan Faction will specialize with Science the way the Federation does with Engineering and the KDF does with Tactical.

Also, Science ships are currently one of the ways the Feds are differentiated from the KDF, and I do not support Faction Homogenization.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-22-2011, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
I'm hoping that the Romulan Faction
You should keep things simple and at this point you should hope that the romulan faction can even exist.

1- The current alternative to the federation faction is incomplete and needs a lot of work (as evidenced by the creation of this very thread). That doesn't bode well for other factions.

2- The dev team has problems devoting resources to anything but the federation. They've given explanations for this here and there, commenting on population IIRC. The population numbers for factions like the romulans would be really low and thus fall into the same reason the dev team supposedly has problems working on Klingon content.

3- The company is currently on the market to be sold and that could have an extreme effect on the future plans of this game's development.

So I don't know. I think holding back KDF science vessel capability because you hope that another faction which currently looks like it has a huge uphill battle to fight to even exist in this game ... seems at the very least like you're putting the cart before the horse.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-22-2011, 09:30 AM
I disagree with the KDF getting science ships just as strongly as I disagree with the Federation getting Carriers. I don't even like the fact that the KDF has ONE science ship, even if it IS a flying piece of scrap.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-22-2011, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasensal
I disagree with the KDF getting science ships just as strongly as I disagree with the Federation getting Carriers. I don't even like the fact that the KDF has ONE science ship, even if it IS a flying piece of scrap.
As long as "science" remains a profession a KDF player can choose, the issue is going to continue to exist.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-22-2011, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
I'm hoping that the Romulan Faction will specialize with Science the way the Federation does with Engineering and the KDF does with Tactical.
I see it more like the Feds being the even middleground, the Vanilla, with a ship analogue to each character class. Their cruisers are fantastic (I would say nerfbait), but I think it's their science ships that really set them apart from the KDF, just as the KDF Birds of Prey and Carriers set them apart from the Federation.

I have a hope that the Romulans, driven by deceit and paranoia, will field a new kind of ship unique to its faction that will hybridize science and tactical in a way we haven't seen before, emphasizing the Romulan tendency to spy on others and fight shadow wars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
Also, Science ships are currently one of the ways the Feds are differentiated from the KDF, and I do not support Faction Homogenization.
Nor do I.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-22-2011, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
As long as "science" remains a profession a KDF player can choose, the issue is going to continue to exist.
I don't see why. There is no rule written anywhere that says there must be a ship analogue to each class available to each faction. Only the Federation is like that, because they're Vanilla. I expect Romulans to field a fleet inventory with oddballs just like the KDF has, and possibly a hole as well, just like the KDF.

KDF science officers are not without their options either, as Birds of Prey can be outfitted as "science raiders" (very Klingon), and they can also use Carriers and the lolworthy Varanus.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-22-2011, 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasensal
I don't see why. There is no rule written anywhere that says there must be a ship analogue to each class available to each faction.
Mostly common sense is in play here. The science profession should receive adequate support from the KDF faction. Or instead have something available to the KDF faction that better suits the KDF choices. So BoP/Carrier profession with some name that sounds more klingon. And get rid of science. Until they do one of those things, there will exist a disparity. And there will thus exist posts asking to fix said disparity.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-22-2011, 10:44 AM
i dont know, i agree that the kdf could use some new ships, but science ships and abilites arnt exactly a klingon speacialty... they are not known for their scientific prowess... lol..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-22-2011, 10:46 AM
The federation isn't known for its battle prowess ... and yet in STO ...
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