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# 31
06-16-2011, 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenel
the Promethius was designed to be an offensive tactical ship capable of being it's own attack group.
The way I look at it is the Prometheus was designed to be three Escorts, which are carried into batlle by a shared dedicated warp drive system.

If you look at the design of the three classes of ships, the Cruisers are designed to be long range, highly autonomous vessels. The original Enterprise was built around a 5 year mission in which it would be away from starbases and resupply for extended periods of time, perhaps even reaching to the very edges of known space. (Such as, the Galactic Barrier) The Galaxy class was designed to be even MORE independent, carrying the families and children of the crew on board so they would not be separated from each other for decades or more.

This is why Cruisers are the largest of the ships, it is not so they can pack more weapons, or even so they are more robust, but so they can carry lots of CARGO. The vast majority of a Cruiser's space is taken up with storage and crew support, the amount of space actually dedicated to combat is minimal, by comparison.

The Escort, on the other end of the spectrum, dedicates most of its space to combat, because it is designed as a warship. Range is not that important, except as necessary to get to the location of the battle, and so it doesn't carry lots of cargo and crew amenities. The Defiant takes this to an extreme, this is stated in canon, the ship is so small, it barely has room for a crew, and it is NOT a comfortable ship to fly on. It is intended to operate from a base, Deep Space Nine, and return to that base when the mission is over. It pretty much has no capability to remain out on a mission for five years or more exploring the unknown.

The Federation has a need, though, for warships which have more extended range and sustainablilty for longer missions. The Akira is one of those, and presumably the Dervish is another, although not to the extent of the bigger Akira. The Prometheus is comparable in size to the Akira, but when split is about the same size as a Miranda or Intrepid. The Prometheus also has redundant systems, it has three warp cores, three computer systems, and three independent weapons systems (some mounted on mating surfaces where they are only exposed when separated) although apparentlly it has only the two impulse engines on the saucer. (And only one bridge)

In other words, if any one of these three redundant systems fail, one of the two backups can take over in combined mode. This makes the Prometheus much more robust than a smaller craft with only one warp core, like the Defiant. During combat, when the demands of battle require that all available systems be brought online, the MVAM can benefit from separating into three smaller, more manueverable craft, while during extended missions the ship is a single, larger, more robust unit.

As for Science Vessels, they seem to be designed for even more autonomy than Cruisers. The Voyager, after all, was able to operate without any contact with Star Fleet at all, in an available space equal to the original Enterprise. Presumably, this was the result of advanced technology, the Intrepid class had an extremely advanced computer system, which was more powerful even than the Galaxy, and probably advanced replication abiltiies as well. (Which explains all those shuttles ) Other Science Vessels, like the Nebula and DSSV, are obviously huge ships and designed for even longer ranged missions.

Primarily, though, the Nebula, Oberth, and even Miranda, are classified as scientific vessels because of their ability to be refitted for specific missions. Science missions presumably have extremely high requirements, like the development of the Genesis device, or the deployment of the tachyon field in TNG to detect the cloaked Klingon ships, and so they probably have to have a lot of varied sensory capabilities, and the abilty to be refitted with the "roll bars" and mission pods that are so common in Science Ships.
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# 32
06-20-2011, 05:55 PM
it should a cruiser becuase in series sovvi wasnt a cruiser it was a battleship so as galxay interpid was cruiser promthues is cruiser akira is cruiser defiant and steam runner r escorts
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# 33
06-20-2011, 05:58 PM
Voyager Didnt Even An Astrometrics Lab Until Late In The Series!!!
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# 34
06-22-2011, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaboom10000 View Post
Voyager Didnt Even An Astrometrics Lab Until Late In The Series!!!
Actually, it's unlikely that a starship devoted to exploration would lack an astrometrics lab. It may have been a very small one, given the limited space in Voyager, but the one shown would be an upgrade or a replacement.

In fact, in the episode in which it's introduced, it's specifically stated that it was an upgrade. According to Memory Alpha, only once is it said that Voyager didn't have an astrometrics lab, and that could have simply been a reference to it not having THAT astrometrics lab. (It could have simply been called "Astrometrics" or "Stellar Cartography" previously. Or even been a suite of rooms instead of a single one)

The main thing is, just because something isn't shown on screen, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There were plenty of sets that were not built for the pilot episode of a Star Trek show that were added later. In some cases, a scene was written for the pilot simply so a set would NOT be put off being built, and possibly end up never being made.
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# 35 thoughts
06-22-2011, 12:45 PM
With respect to all other post. All starfleet vessels have a significant role in the fleet. It can stay out of contact with a starbase for more then 6 years before running into significant problems.

The prometheus was built along the lines of bringing more fire power to bear on a target(s) with having less options for the enemy to focus on 1 ship. lets be frank. after the borg starfleet wanted more ships with teeth and the ability to survive on its own. The USS destiny galaxy class taught starfleet that bigger is not always better.
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# 36
06-22-2011, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFP-Magnis View Post
With respect to all other post. All starfleet vessels have a significant role in the fleet. It can stay out of contact with a starbase for more then 6 years before running into significant problems.
Actually, I would seriously question if a Defiant class ship could function for 6 years without returning to a starbase. The Defiant itself was assigned to Deep Space 9, permanently. (And apparently is still there in game, the Defiant (-A?) is sent to aid the player in one of the Cardassian space missions)

The original Enterprise was assigned to a 5 year mission, and was not out of range to visit a starbase as needed probably every six months or so. Only the Voyager successfully operated outside of Federation space for several years at a time, and it did so by trading with and resupplying at the cultures that it encountered along the way home.

I personally would say that Cruisers have the longest mission lifespans, with the bigger ships having the longest independent operation time. Science Vessels would be the second longest, with Science/Cruiser hybrids (such as the DSSV) having greater self-sufficency even than Cruisers. (Cruisers have longer missions overall, but are expected to resupply more often) Escorts would have the shortest, since in general their missions are going to be individual combat sorties. The Prometheus, however, might be built for long range missions deep into enemy space.

Quote:
The prometheus was built along the lines of bringing more fire power to bear on a target(s) with having less options for the enemy to focus on 1 ship. lets be frank. after the borg starfleet wanted more ships with teeth and the ability to survive on its own. The USS destiny galaxy class taught starfleet that bigger is not always better.
That's true, which is why the Sovereign is more of a warship design. The Galaxy was pretty much the culmination of the Federation's ideals of long range space exploration and diplomacy. As powerful as it is, it wasn't really built for war.

On the other hand, there is something to be said of having a fleet consisting of both cruisers and destroyers.
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# 37
06-22-2011, 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sivar View Post
This one is up there with the old posts that wanted the Intrepid to be an escort or the Sovereign to be an escort as well. The question of validity is moot as it really doesn't matter because it's not going to happen, Cryptic is not going to alter their tier system.
yeah, this.

Pretty much end all, be all about this topic. (moves on)
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# 38 Prometheus is an Escourt
06-22-2011, 03:02 PM
according to Memory Alpha:
"The USS Prometheus (NX-59650/NX-74913) was the prototype of the Prometheus-class and at least the second starship to bear the name, a long-range starship designed for tactical purposes and equipped with multi-vector assault mode, regenerative shields, and ablative armor."

[...]

During their escape aboard the ship, the Prometheus easily disabled the USS Bonchune when the Romulans decided to enable the multi-vector assault mode, for the first time, proving its potency as a combat vessel.

This is why it was made an Escort.
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# 39 your almost right
06-22-2011, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blayyde
Actually, I would seriously question if a Defiant class ship could function for 6 years without returning to a starbase. The Defiant itself was assigned to Deep Space 9, permanently. (And apparently is still there in game, the Defiant (-A?) is sent to aid the player in one of the Cardassian space missions)

The original Enterprise was assigned to a 5 year mission, and was not out of range to visit a starbase as needed probably every six months or so. Only the Voyager successfully operated outside of Federation space for several years at a time, and it did so by trading with and resupplying at the cultures that it encountered along the way home.

I personally would say that Cruisers have the longest mission lifespans, with the bigger ships having the longest independent operation time. Science Vessels would be the second longest, with Science/Cruiser hybrids (such as the DSSV) having greater self-sufficency even than Cruisers. (Cruisers have longer missions overall, but are expected to resupply more often) Escorts would have the shortest, since in general their missions are going to be individual combat sorties. The Prometheus, however, might be built for long range missions deep into enemy space.



That's true, which is why the Sovereign is more of a warship design. The Galaxy was pretty much the culmination of the Federation's ideals of long range space exploration and diplomacy. As powerful as it is, it wasn't really built for war.

On the other hand, there is something to be said of having a fleet consisting of both cruisers and destroyers.
You are right the Cruisers were built to the work horse of the Federation. But, Kirk was on a 5 year mission to Explore, this does not mean the lifespan of his ship was only 5 years. The Cruisers seemed to be the semi-trucks of space caring personnel, supplies, equipment, as well as other duty's. where escorts being a small ship, there was no real function for them other than combat. I also do not think you can compare a ship built in the 2200's to a ship built in the 2300's with teach improving the way it does.
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# 40
06-22-2011, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebiggyj View Post
But, Kirk was on a 5 year mission to Explore, this does not mean the lifespan of his ship was only 5 years.
I never said that it was. I said that the MISSION LIFESPAN of a particular Cruiser would be a certain length. I probably should not have used the term at all, but the point is that that is the maximum time a given ship would be assigned to a specific mission. Any longer than that, and it would probably put too much stress on the crew. (Being away from home, and so on)

The point I was making, though, is that the Enterprise had a mission length of 5 years, during which it was intended to operate semi-autonomously, often going to places out of the reach of Star Fleet. However, that does not mean the Enterprise was out of touch of Star Fleet for the WHOLE of that 5 years. It would return to starbase frequently for resupply.

Quote:
I also do not think you can compare a ship built in the 2200's to a ship built in the 2300's with teach improving the way it does.
I don't think the technology of supply and logistics would change that much in 100 years or even 1000 years. Modern day ships need to return to port for resupply at regular intervals, and technology does not significantly change that. Of course, nuclear power plants to allow ships to operate for prolonged periods without needing to refuel, but there is still a need for food and perishable supplies. And it is the human condition to need rest and recreation. 300 years of technology development will never change that.

If anything, the range of a ship is directly related to its size. A Galaxy class starship would certainly have more range than a Constellation class starship, because it has more space for raw storage. Technology is somewhat less important. The Voyager was 100 years younger than the Enterprise, but only 60 meters longer than it. While it's ability to survive in the Delta Quandrant with such limited space was almost certainly due to its technology, a Galaxy class in the same situation would have had an easier time of it. (Although, a larger more complex ship might have been more likely to break down)

Heck, a number of episodes of Voyager dealt with the sacrifices the crew had to make to deal with their limited space. Such as, employing Neelix as a cook to conserve power instead of using replicators. This is an instance where high technology was replaced by low tech.
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