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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
06-01-2011, 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victory275 View Post
I pugged it for over a year and was never discouraged to see a premade on the other side. I just always thought, "okay, time for some schooling." It was never in me to warp out... just can't bring myself to ever do it.
This.

People seem to be averse to entering matches where they may face defeat, as if the only good match, is one they have a reasonable chance of winning.

Frankly, I think it's quite childish.

Not only, as already mentioned, do we simply not have the population to support such a queue system, it seems to want to punish people for being in a fleet or having friends.

Yesterday I was in a full PUG in an Arena game, solar wind. Teamed up (almost immediately, good job feds!), said our hellos (wow, communication?!?!) and flew to the middle. I ran ahead in my defiant, and saw...a full Raumflotte (I think that is the spelling?) premade.

The only thing to cross my mind?? "It's awwwwn!"

The fact I will probably lose the match, was neither here nor there, and if it is for you, I argue you shouldn't be playing PvP in the first place. If you can't be a gracious loser, go shoot an NPC.

So, predictably, the match ended in their favour 15-1. But, we made them work hard for their kills. For a pre-made vs a pug the match was unusually long, our healers did a wonderful job of trying to keep the DPS alive. Raumflotte were just, better. It was interesting to note their Damage wasn't much higher than ours, nor their healing, yet they beat us by 14. They were just a slicker team. They were bang on their healing, and for a while I thought we'd never get any of them, they made it seem impossible. So I tell you, when we finally managed to get our sole kill late in the match, I was overjoyed. I let out a shout of victory, and despite the fact we lost the match, it still FELT like victory.

This in my eyes, is the heart of a warrior. This thread smacks of the heart of a coward.

Kah'less would be rolling in Sto'Vo'Kor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
06-01-2011, 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
Not only, as already mentioned, do we simply not have the population to support such a queue system, it seems to want to punish people for being in a fleet or having friends.
What do you mean by punishment? There would be a special queue for teams to offer them fun and chalenge they are surely looking for in competitive gameplay ?? And you see that as punishment ?

And what is the current state of pugger facing the SAME premade several times in row then ? A blessing ?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
06-01-2011, 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
What do you mean by punishment? There would be a special queue for teams to offer them fun and chalenge they are surely looking for in competitive gameplay ?? And you see that as punishment ?

And what is the current state of pugger facing the SAME premade several times in row then ? A blessing ?
Because not enough pre-mades are queued at any one time to guarantee they will get matches in anything close to a reasonable time. They will be forced to enter the solo queue just to get a match. Yes, I call that punishment.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
06-01-2011, 02:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
Because not enough pre-mades are queued at any one time to guarantee they will get matches in anything close to a reasonable time. They will be forced to enter the solo queue just to get a match. Yes, I call that punishment.
But thats not the problem of PUGers, but the problem of the game itself, that people have no incentive or do not care about competitive team fights.

You have obviously double standards. You do not mind to punish, us honest puggers, and let them fight those boring premades, so they can boost their e-peen.

I think the greatest demagogy heard on these forums is, that "solo" players are unable to team up and suck in general. I assure you, its not the case usually, its the CHOICE of the player how he wants to spend his money (fun).

So I see not problem in making 2 types of queues, so people have CHOICE to select the one they prefer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
06-01-2011, 02:29 AM
You know what would be an interesting research project? to really see how many people are interested just in pvp ?

Data mine average of players playing in space pvp during one month....then disable emblem rewards for it for a month and compare the numbers.

You would see how many people are interested in rewards and how many in pvp. I think, the results would be shocking...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
06-01-2011, 02:31 AM
That's rubbish. Frankly the only fleet I see flying together on a regular occurrence these days are LF. More often than not when I pug, I encounter another pug.

And I really apologise if you view asking people to play with the consideration that they are not a 1 man team with 4 cheerleaders, but that is NOT punishment, nor a double standard. PvP, besides private matches, is a TEAM endeavor.

What I hear is that people want another queue for those who just can't be bothered to try, or who see defeat as intolerable. If you want to be a "casual" PvPer than you need to accept the fact that there will always be better organised teams, and to take your defeats on the chin.

Win or lose, the only thing that REALLY matters to me is that I tried. And heck, I might even learn something from swimming in the deep end. I know I'm not gonna learn anything from fighting your average pug.

"No retreat! no Surrender!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
06-01-2011, 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
Win or lose, the only thing that REALLY matters to me is that I tried. And heck, I might even learn something from swimming in the deep end. I know I'm not gonna learn anything from fighting your average pug."
So now explain me, why do you want to fight us, crappy average PUGers, and do not have your own queue for competitive gameplay, where you meet people from which you can learn something ?

If you meet them now, you would meet them also in the team queue...and you would find them easier!.

If not, that means, they have no balls for serious competition anyway, so probably are not better than those, crappy average puggers, you despise so much.

There is a flaw in your logic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
06-01-2011, 04:02 AM
I think some people confuse terms here. A PUG player, is looking for random teams, not lack of teamplay. Calling people "single players" is really childish. A PUG means pick up group, not lack of teamplay.

A true PUGer (not a person playing for emblems that wants the match to be finished asap), has to work at least twice as much harder to success, then the usual premade team member. The average premade team member (see not the really skilled exceptions) is often trained monkey to work in a certain role, once outside his role, he fails horribly. Put him with 4 other randoms in group, and he will be completely lost. Well not completely, but even with his skill, he will not be accustomed to improvize and even his above average skill alone wont make that much difference.

As a PUGr you do not know your team composition, you cannot prepare your BOs, you don't know how your new comrades are playing, what are their skills and such, you have to find that out and adjust in the first moments of the fight and improvize, often create tactic on the go. Tha'ts something many true PuGers are looking for, the challenge.

Beating PUGs with premade is not challenge, its not even worth the time (at least for me).

The demagogy about that PUG =no teamplay, is just sad example of elitism, generalization and lack of common sense.

But as I said, hardly surprising from some people, who divide people into to two groups "us" and "those others". And do not understand that "the others" are not homogeneous group, and that wast majority of them are only emblem hunters, not interested in the pvp itself.

The only point valid, is that people like to play with their friends. I also like to play with my friends, but not in regular queues. And I much rather prefer to play against them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
06-01-2011, 04:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
As a PUGr you do not know your team composition, you cannot prepare your BOs, you don't know how your new comrades are playing, what are their skills and such, you have to find that out and adjust in the first moments of the fight and improvize, often create tactic on the go. Tha'ts something many true PuGers are looking for, the challenge.
Actually, in 90% of the cases you do know what your new comrades will do: less damage and less healing than you.
It is quite puzzling how some players manage to do significantly less damage in a tac/defiant than someone in a tac/golfball or eng/hybridcruiser, but sadly this happens all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
The demagogy about that PUG =no teamplay, is just sad example of elitism, generalization and lack of common sense.
It's not demagogy, it's experience. Of course you occasionally encounter teamplay in some PUGs, but most of the time the source of that teamplay are single players from pvp fleets with premade experience.

Of course, experiences differ. Maybe you always get that science team from a fellow PUG player when you have been subnuked and get heals when you are the focus fire target of the other team. I don't. Maybe other players simply don't like me and want to see my ship explode, but somehow I doubt that this is the reason.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
06-01-2011, 04:43 AM
And in 90% cases your premade steamrolls a PUG....so in the end, we both have 10% of good pvp so to say.

Then I do not understand the resistance against separated queues. It can't get much worse. Unless you enjoy the boring steamrolling that is.
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