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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
06-01-2011, 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
Again, cant say this enough: get a team. This is a team game, not individual.
I can agree with that. Unfortunately 90% of my time in this game i spend in stupid PUG's. I have no other choice. I'm the only person in my fleet, who lives in EU (rest of us are from States & Canada). When I should go to sleep, because in Europe is middle of the night - the rest of us that remains in STO - just begin to log into the game. Many of us left. I'm lucky when I can find someone on my friends list, who isn't doing anything else at that time and want to do PVP with me. So yeah most of the time I'm alone forced to participate in PUG's.

Klingon PUG's usually are competent and effective but FED PUG's most of the time are terrible. Everyone spams everything like crazy, there is no focusing on one target and forget that someone will heal you. Tanky princesses care only about themselves - 3 days ago i was in team with 4 eng in cruisers + my little tac Defiant. I had to escape all the time because no one even tried to heal me. It happens. Maybe those guys thought that their cruisers are more squishy than my escort and therefore they must keep all the healing powers for themselfs.

But it's not always so bad. If you - by the accident - will find in your team decent players PUG's can be also good fun. When you are in team with random people there is nothing better than defeating premade. In such a way, PUG I was in, beat few times FSI, LF, Strenflotte and other fleet premades.

I can agree with opinions that fighting against Fistas or TSI premade is hopeless and V E R Y annoying but i like it (maybe i'm crazy masochist).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
06-01-2011, 08:31 AM
Auto teaming should be something that's seriously considered to be implemented.

STO can often be a lonely game for most players simply because many lack the motivation and initiative to take the first step and start a group.

If there should be any hand holding, then it should be something for something that's generally positive for the players by having auto teaming done for them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
06-01-2011, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
How many full premades are out there at any given time? I think you hugely overestimate that number (which is probably slightly lower than 1 most of the time and only rises to 2 or 3 on a few very busy nights every couple of weeks).
Ignore full premades. The hypothetical premade queue doesn't need to require full 5 man premades. It just is the only place where teamed players can join. This means any team size of 2-5. Single players can also still queue. That means teams will be filled up during the match if they aren't large enough on their own.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
06-01-2011, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
So now explain me, why do you want to fight us, crappy average PUGers, and do not have your own queue for competitive gameplay, where you meet people from which you can learn something ?

If you meet them now, you would meet them also in the team queue...and you would find them easier!.

If not, that means, they have no balls for serious competition anyway, so probably are not better than those, crappy average puggers, you despise so much.

There is a flaw in your logic.
I never said I despise them. You are reading far too much in to it.

Why do I PUG? Because my fleet is in atrophy and it is my only current option. Even still, would I pug too even if I didn't have to? Yes, because maybe they can learn something from me. I am not attempting to be boastful, I am far from the best player, but even still I have had countless tells or questions in zone chat about how I or someone else did something, and I am usually more than happy to explain. There is more to being a decent player than just trouncing people. You can also be a useful source of information.

PUGS shouldn't just play better groups so they can learn from their defeats, but so they can learn by asking direct questions, and observing how better players and teams operate.

I guess I just don't see the solution to our problem giving players a crutch to stand up on. The solution to our problem IMO is greater promotion of good teamwork.


Quote:
Originally Posted by startrekfan View Post
Klingon PUG's usually are competent and effective but FED PUG's most of the time are terrible.
Let us be frank, it is most certainly the case. This is another reason why I would oppose creating a new queue, because it is really solely for the benefit of one faction. Fed PvE does not promote any real teamwork. Klinks are thrust into the fire. That is the real problem here. I say this as someone with toons on both sides, though I more often play fed, and the difference between the two pug groups is so sadly apparent.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
06-01-2011, 10:58 AM
But PUG and teamwork is not mutual exclusive...its just a challenge to make it work in very limited time
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
06-01-2011, 11:03 AM
No it isn't, agreed. I made an edit above probably after you posted. Klink pugs, have nowhere near the same level of problem. They are largely quite competent at teamwork.

I should qualify, I have no issue with the concept of pugging, I have issue with the all too common practice of Captain Kirk-ing.

One match may be too short, but over the course of many, I expect to see at least SOME consideration for the others on your side.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
06-01-2011, 11:06 AM
But those cpt. Kirks are usualy those hot-head PVErs interested only in emblems...they want the match to end asap, no matter how. Thats why i want to filter them out, with emblems only for winning.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
06-01-2011, 11:34 AM
Then we go back to the problem of population. If all the farmers leave, how often will queues pop? Less often than now, is all I can imagine. I'd rather have possibly annoying PvP, than no PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
06-01-2011, 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
Then we go back to the problem of population. If all the farmers leave, how often will queues pop? Less often than now, is all I can imagine. I'd rather have possibly annoying PvP, than no PvP.
See thats the difference,i will gladly wait 30 mins to have a decent match if there are only decent matches, maybe more people will flock to pvp, and the time will be shorter and shorter hardly possible now
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
06-01-2011, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
You know what would be an interesting research project? to really see how many people are interested just in pvp ?

Data mine average of players playing in space pvp during one month....then disable emblem rewards for it for a month and compare the numbers.

You would see how many people are interested in rewards and how many in pvp. I think, the results would be shocking...
Personally, I mostly play just for the pure PvP, but I do need the rewards to keep me interested. It's not that I count emblems or anything, but PvP is my main way of getting gear, and it's a bit discouraging that PvE yields better gear more quickly.

If no one advanced, then it wouldn't bother me if there were no PvP rewards, but the way end game advancement is right now has me taking long breaks frequently because of discouragement.

As a PvPer, I'm never going to have access to a Borg set, or a crafted set, but I still need to face that stuff, and it's head and shoulders better than the Mk X blues and greens that are earned with marks. Emblems buy much better gear, but if you mostly PvP then emblems are gained very slowly.

And then there are the PvE rewards like Har'pengs, scorpions, transphasic torpedo-mines, and tractor mines that keep getting dumped into PvP. Those aren't hard to get, but it's kind of annoying that PvE-only rewards keep being added that dramatically effect the PvP game.

I guess my point is that rewards are necessary for PvP (and very lack-luster right now), but only because of the inflation in PvE gear. If PvE gear stopped at the Mk X blue and green gear that you can buy from the PvP vendors then it wouldn't matter if there was a reward for PvP or not. But with the way things are I get pretty discouraged that time spent PvPing puts me at a disadvantage compared to players who spent that time farming PvE content.

With emblems being the only route to end game PvP gear, it's already like there is no reward for PvP. It's only when you add the PvP emblems to the PvE emblems that they start accumulating at a decent rate. It's already enough that when I look at a month of working to get an engine or something, I sometimes decide to just let my subscription drop for a month or two. The rate of advancement is already slow enough as compared to PvE advancement, that I'm about as likely to earn a new shiny in a month of not playing.

The short story is that PvP rewards need to be similar in quality and speed in which they can be earned to PvE rewards. I'd be happy with only giving rewards for winning if that's what it takes to scare away the AFKers. Even when I'm using a ship or captain that I've got no experience with, or that still has crummy gear or a bad BOff layout -- even when I'm starting with the worst base I still end up in a bunch of wins. I don't care if I break .500 with a new captain, and I don't care that premades would earn gear faster than me. I just really resent that PvE is required to be competitive in PvP.
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