Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
06-07-2011, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
Yeah, maybe I should just stop worrying about the whole thing. The fact that the terms of the Foundry seem to keep being amended to be increasingly restrictive bothers me. But, the truth is, none of my story ideas used canon ship names or characters anyway (at least not more than by reference).
Actually, the true danger here is that they will just shut down the Foundry if it causes too many headaches and undo legal exposure for Cryptic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
06-07-2011, 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorrowedTune
Patrick Stewart is an actor. Captain Jean-Luc Picard is a fictional character. Nagorak is correct. According to the EULA, you could make an npc called Captain Jean-Luc Picard just so long as he does not resemble any of the actors who portrayed him. According to other sources at Cryptic, you cannot. If it came down to it, I think you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that a npc in a video game truly resembles anyone in real life. And for the record, this "likeness" legal issue is not as clear cut as you may think... just ask the boys at South Park.



Well, it says "copyrighted," not "trademarked." There is a difference.
Right. Characters aren't copyrighted. Uniforms aren't copyrighted.

What copyright would imply would be, say, a specific photograph (not the contents of the photograph but the work as a composition) or outright recreating plots or lengthy strings of dialogue. That's copyrighted.

The Enterprise is not and cannot be copyrighted.

Per the EULA and the EULA alone, we should be free to use any trademarks (aside from actor likenesses, which is more about publicity rights) but NOT free to infringe on copyrights.

That said, if a Cryptic employee says we can't use blue people, I'm willing to venture that we're bound to whatever they say per our STO EULA, which supercedes the Foundry EULA, and basically lets them tell us what to do about anything. But we are constantly being handed rulings that overstep the Foundry EULA, which is troubling and demoralizing.

And the current line of interpretation would indeed suggest that using Klingons, phasers, Deep Space Nine, or Tribbles, both displayed and identified as such, would potentially be violations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
06-07-2011, 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorrowedTune
Actually, the true danger here is that they will just shut down the Foundry if it causes too many headaches and undo legal exposure for Cryptic.
Which is silly since CBS is fine with CafePress and GoAnimate and neither of THOSE companies are worried about legal exposure, the latter of which allows custom content featuring the complete TOS cast of characters.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
06-08-2011, 02:30 AM
I've decided I'm just not going to worry about it. If Cryptic says to avoid using canon vessel names then I won't use them. It doesn't really matter for any of my potential story ideas.

I'm feeling a bit disillusioned with the Foundry in general though. It requires a lot of effort to make a mission, especially given the clunky nature of the current tools. Also, it seems to take me in particular far too long. So, I can kind of see where Leviathan is coming from. We're doing all this for free, and it's supposed to be fun. And to some extent it is fun, but there's still an element of work involved. It's a shame to have to work within so many restrictions on top of all that.

That said, I'm sure it's still possible to make good missions. The lack of being able to have canon vessels is not that important. I guess I'm more worried about the trajectory we seem to be on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
06-08-2011, 08:34 AM
I kind of look at it like i have a place i like to hang out a lot and someone gave me a work space paint buckets, brushes, wallpaper, decorations etc. The choice to spruce up a space i don't get paid to on my personal time or to not do it.

Then again this is how i always felt about crafting in MMO's as well, "working" within a "game". People could argue that in crafting your working for rewards that u create in game- but my personal satisfaction from making a foundry mission feels the same it just isn't as tangible.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
06-08-2011, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I've decided I'm just not going to worry about it. If Cryptic says to avoid using canon vessel names then I won't use them. It doesn't really matter for any of my potential story ideas.

I'm feeling a bit disillusioned with the Foundry in general though. It requires a lot of effort to make a mission, especially given the clunky nature of the current tools. Also, it seems to take me in particular far too long. So, I can kind of see where Leviathan is coming from. We're doing all this for free, and it's supposed to be fun. And to some extent it is fun, but there's still an element of work involved. It's a shame to have to work within so many restrictions on top of all that.

That said, I'm sure it's still possible to make good missions. The lack of being able to have canon vessels is not that important. I guess I'm more worried about the trajectory we seem to be on.
I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. Once I have an idea, I figure a decent mission takes a couple of days for me.

My first mission was a nod to the Brannon Braga gimmick episodes and had an alternate Enterprise. (Oddly enough? I think the Enterprise may be the only thing that pushes the line there, in spite of it being my attempt to push the boundaries. But because I tried to push the boundaries, there's always a chance that future rulings could require more changes. And I have no clue how to indicate that the ship is a ship that shouldn't exist without giving it the same name as a ship in service.)

But I want to have some kind of touchstone in every mission. I had plans for the USS Challenger (while Geordi is away on shore leave). This was actually going to be my follow-up on The Naked Now and The Naked Time... and while it seems we can use that virus now, per Wishy's example, the ship is out and I'm not convinced the virus will remain something we can use given the current line of interpretations.

I had plans for a thriving Klingon City where there would be tons of references to things, including a live Klingon Shakespeare venue. One big feature was going to include a Klingon legal chamber based on the one in The Undiscovered Country. I'm not sure I can do that since I'm recreating things like a stage (based on the Globe but Cryptic may think that's "copyrighted") and the Klingon trial chamber, which I'm almost certain is out if we can't slap the name "Enterprise" on a ship of an appropriate class.

I had plans for a group of refugees from 21st century earth who we discover in suspended animation, like both Khan and the people from The Neutral Zone, with some Klingon lore including an appearance of a lore Klingon's ship. This seems the most workable but it involves repurposing jumpsuits to look like aerospace suits we saw in Trek

Everyone said that the missions in-game were light on lore aside from references, which people don't like, whereas I always felt a familiar ship or setting. Show, don't tell.

But everything indicates that our ability to reference Trek comes in the form of telling, not showing.

So on top of the fact that I feel like there should be some kind of compensation for creating original stuff and ceding the rights away (if I put it in a Foundry mission, I can't put it in a novel), when I play Star Trek Online, I want to play STAR TREK Online, not original sci-fi MMO that references Star Trek less than some WoW parody quests do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
06-08-2011, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
I had plans for a thriving Klingon City where there would be tons of references to things, including a live Klingon Shakespeare venue. One big feature was going to include a Klingon legal chamber based on the one in The Undiscovered Country. I'm not sure I can do that since I'm recreating things like a stage (based on the Globe but Cryptic may think that's "copyrighted") and the Klingon trial chamber, which I'm almost certain is out if we can't slap the name "Enterprise" on a ship of an appropriate class.
i think you're reading too much into this and panicking too much. you can still make a klingon trial chamber. or have a stage. you can still deck your klingon world out as you would expect a klingon world to look.

you cant copyright a stage, or have cryptic ban trails in round rooms because star trek once showed a trial in a round room.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
06-08-2011, 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorrowedTune
Actually, the true danger here is that they will just shut down the Foundry if it causes too many headaches and undo legal exposure for Cryptic.
NEVER going to happen. Foundry = Free Missions for anyone to play (with daily rewards, mind you) = Free money for Cryptic
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 99
06-08-2011, 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
i think you're reading too much into this and panicking too much. you can still make a klingon trial chamber. or have a stage. you can still deck your klingon world out as you would expect a klingon world to look.

you cant copyright a stage, or have cryptic ban trails in round rooms because star trek once showed a trial in a round room.
You can't copyright a starship either but, somehow, while we can reference the Enterprise and show a ship that looks just like it, we can't link the two.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 100
06-21-2011, 09:28 PM
Since there is a restrictions on starships as unique prior art entities, shouldn't other space-born free-existing structures such as space stations also come the terms of this restriction? Places like K-7 and Deep Space Nine are as much characters as the existing prior art restriction as the Enterprise.
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