Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
06-07-2011, 09:47 AM
Understandable that you want to add some things from Trek that are exciting to you personally, but that is the pros and cons of any creative license that is held within an already owned IP.

Look at it like this- I remember reading interviews with Bruce Timm, the genius who brought us the Dc animated universe such as Batman: the animated series, Justice League Unlimited, etc.

Bruce discussed how he would send DC a list of heroes he would like to use in the series. He did not expect to get permission for as many on his list as he actually did. He was very excited by how many he 'was" allowed to use.

Point being he went into it understanding he had to restrain or work around the full power of his mind's creative muscles, he was hired and oked to create the animated series but since this is a series held within an already established and licensed I.P., he also knew as a writer he would have to get permissions for adding characters or places etc that were not already green lighted by Warner brothers and DC already.

We are privileged to have the Foundry, but what will never change no matter how much we express disappointment, is the fact that we do NOT have carte blanche on the IP. That is just something we need to either accept as authors, or not accept and not use the Foundry.

The pros still outweigh the cons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
06-07-2011, 10:02 AM
The EULA itself doesn't say CHARACTER appearances are out. It says ACTOR appearances are out.

I have zero interest in the Foundry at all under your interpretation of things, Podsix.

Because without the perk of playing very clearly in the Star Trek playground, I would want to get paid for the work involved in making a Foundry mission. The more original I'm expected to be, the more I feel like I'd rather collect a check for my ideas. The ONLY reason to give them away for free is because I get permission to tell Star Trek stories this way.

Take a look at the other CBS-approved UGC.

You can use the Enterprise all day long at Cafe Press. The big restriction there is on showing actors.

Look at GoAnimate.com...

You get to use caricatures of the complete original series cast! There. they have UGC that's all about creating stories with existing Trek characters. I hate to say it but that's starting to look a lot more interesting than The Foundry... and it's closer to what I thought the Foundry business model would be like (down to paying for likenesses in the C-Store).

I think it's kinda silly that GoAnimate worked out a deal that lets users actually build stories with the classic Trek cast of characters and yet, here, we can't even name a ship the U.S.S. Hood or Farragut, apparently.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
06-07-2011, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
This does not come from me, PF. This comes from my bosses. This Posting came verbatim from Ivan, whom you guys know is my boss here at Marcom. It came from a discussion thread that involved a lot of people in different departments. I understand that no one wants to be told "No", but "No" it is here.
Thank you for responding to this.

I'm not trying to be stupid, but we, all of us, really need some specific details. So what you're saying is:

1) We cannot use the names of specific people from the properties (we already knew this).

2) We cannot use specific ship names from the properties.

3) We cannot create missions that are exact copies of episodes or movies.

4) We can use races from the properties: Vulcans, Andorians, Romulans, etc.

5) We can use places from the properties: Vulcan, Qo'noS, Deep Space 9, etc.

6) We can use items from the properties: Phasers, Warp Drive, Tricorders, etc.

Please correct me if any of these are wrong.

Thank you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
06-07-2011, 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishStone
This does not come from me, PF. This comes from my bosses. This Posting came verbatim from Ivan, whom you guys know is my boss here at Marcom. It came from a discussion thread that involved a lot of people in different departments. I understand that no one wants to be told "No", but "No" it is here.

And anyone who does not wish to just follow the link, I will be happy to repeat it and even add highlighting.


Edith:

It is a huge misconception from users that a company just 'invents' EULAs, TOS and similar - and one that just sticks around. The reason that such rules look as if they 'do not make sense' is because they get written in legal terms. You'll find a lot of and/or stuff, you'll find terms and wording not found anywhere else in regular written, flowing texts.

The whole reason that you do not see me paraphrase the TOS for you guys on the fly, is that I am not a lawyer and cannot do this for you. And our lawyers would tell me no anyhow, because it needs to stay like this. The moment anyone would 'rewrite' stuff is when it indeed starts standing on shaky ground.

It's right there for you, as rephrased as we can give it. "Make your own story in the Trek universe". I even attempted to give you an example from Trek. Canon, on the air, made by CBS Trek. Go back and watch The Naked Time and The Naked Now. Note the differences between the two and you know what you'll be able to do without problems.
If naming a Galaxy class ship the Enterprise or a Klingon ship the Klothos constitutes mimicking the work of others then using Klingons, setting a mission explicitly on DS9 or Vulcan, and using Klingons is the same thing.

The sole value of the Foundry IS that it allows us access to the work of others and I find it to be something whgich reduces the value of the Foundry to ZERO if the whole purpose of the EULA isn't to expand Foundry author rights into Star Trek as far as the tool and license allow.

If we can use a Galaxy class ship and we can talk about the Enterprise, we should be able to show it as the Enterprise-D. If we can't, then you should probably look into stripping the use of Galaxy class ships out of the Foundry, since that's mimicking.

I wish I could understand why a licensee like GoAnimate or Cafe Press has so much broader power for its users to create derivative Trek material than what Cryptic is allowing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
06-07-2011, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch99 View Post
Understandable that you want to add some things from Trek that are exciting to you personally, but that is the pros and cons of any creative license that is held within an already owned IP.

We are privileged to have the Foundry, but what will never change no matter how much we express disappointment, is the fact that we do NOT have carte blanche on the IP. That is just something we need to either accept as authors, or not accept and not use the Foundry.

The pros still outweigh the cons.
Insightful and I agree, but wasn't the Foundry meant for us as a tool to expand, For me right now it's expanding upon the existing, but never seen.

Like my Battle of Klach D'Kel Bracht, which elaborates a never seen battle that was apparently important to Kor. To others its the Earth-Romulan War. Or perhaps the return the Genesis Cave.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
06-07-2011, 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch99 View Post
Understandable that you want to add some things from Trek that are exciting to you personally, but that is the pros and cons of any creative license that is held within an already owned IP.
None of CBS's other licensees that offer UGC are as strict and some are built AROUND the idea of creating new works with the characters.

Cryptic is the ONLY licensee that allows any kind of UGC and ISN'T allowing people to take an image of an Enterprise and call it the Enterprise. And pretty much the one restriction with established characters under OTHER CBS licensees is that you can't dig into actor likenesses and they supply you with pre-approved renderings of characters to use.

This is probably the most anemic example of UGC with a CBS license backing it out there and is certainly far more restrictive than what CBS imposes on its other licensees or what those licensees impose on users.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
06-07-2011, 10:24 AM
But there is so much more we could create that is original. Why revisit the Genesis cave? Go forward not backwards, in said example you could mention project Genesis and have a story where someone has aquired a possible Genesis device maybe by time travel, or maybe Kruge's mistress Valkris had transmitted a copy to a secret faction of Klingon intelligence.

Use the I.P. for reference and launch your own ideas "based" on some of the things on the show. If people keep making yet another version of Kobayashi Maru, or a sequal to an episode, it just isn't taking advantage of what we have here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
06-07-2011, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch99 View Post
But there is so much more we could create that is original. Why revisit the Genesis cave? Go forward not backwards, in said example you could mention project Genesis and have a story where someone has aquired a possible Genesis device maybe by time travel, or maybe Kruge's mistress Valkris had transmitted a copy to a secret faction of Klingon intelligence.

Use the I.P. for reference and launch your own ideas "based" on some of the things on the show. If people keep making yet another version of Kobayashi Maru, or a sequal to an episode, it just isn't taking advantage of what we have here.
And if it's that original, we could do it outside the Foundry and get paid for producing it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
06-07-2011, 10:57 AM
Typically something like the IKS Klothos can be mentioned just like the Enterprise. It just can't be seen because you could have something like that blown up or do something that alters the continuity.

Why ANY of these rules apply to what is essentially 3-D fan fiction is totally beyond me. None of us make money on the Foundry missions we make. No where on the Interwebs does CBS or Paramount attack someone for writing fan fiction (at least as long as they aren't making money on it)

Typically the sheer fact that we are not, in any way, profiting from this is what protects our creative license. Wishstone used the Naked Now and Naked Time as examples of how to make two related stories w/o actually showing or interfereing with things.

I'd like to submit Star Trek: New Voyages as proof of our right to utilize names, ships, etc. The only reason I can think that we aren't allowed to use names/images that aren't already in the Foundry is because CRYPTIC isn't allowed to for one reason or another. Since technically they're making money off the IP/In-Game items. That means anything created in-game would cause them problems and have to be removed because someone who isn't the face/creator of that thing isn't getting paid a portion.

Now pretending like anyone actually subscribes to STO for the sole purpose of playing Foundry missions is a joke in and of itself...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
06-07-2011, 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerhelm View Post
Typically something like the IKS Klothos can be mentioned just like the Enterprise. It just can't be seen because you could have something like that blown up or do something that alters the continuity.
Alters the continuity? There is no continuity. The wrapper missions explicitly presents Foundry missions as simulations. You can choose to ignore that but, in doing so, you're giving authors permission to tell you their story.
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