Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
06-07-2011, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerhelm View Post
Typically something like the IKS Klothos can be mentioned just like the Enterprise. It just can't be seen because you could have something like that blown up or do something that alters the continuity.

Why ANY of these rules apply to what is essentially 3-D fan fiction is totally beyond me. None of us make money on the Foundry missions we make. No where on the Interwebs does CBS or Paramount attack someone for writing fan fiction (at least as long as they aren't making money on it)

Typically the sheer fact that we are not, in any way, profiting from this is what protects our creative license. Wishstone used the Naked Now and Naked Time as examples of how to make two related stories w/o actually showing or interfereing with things.

I'd like to submit Star Trek: New Voyages as proof of our right to utilize names, ships, etc. The only reason I can think that we aren't allowed to use names/images that aren't already in the Foundry is because CRYPTIC isn't allowed to for one reason or another. Since technically they're making money off the IP/In-Game items. That means anything created in-game would cause them problems and have to be removed because someone who isn't the face/creator of that thing isn't getting paid a portion.

Now pretending like anyone actually subscribes to STO for the sole purpose of playing Foundry missions is a joke in and of itself...

But... the simple fact is cryptic is making money off of the missions you make. The foundry is good for us, but wonderful for them. Don't think for a second its a gift.

Anyways, if Cryptic is making money off a mission based off of a Pocket book's book, then I would think the author of the book would be entitled to compensation, thus the problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
06-07-2011, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch99 View Post
But there is so much more we could create that is original. Why revisit the Genesis cave? Go forward not backwards,
Why have the Borg, Ferengi, and Organians show up on Enterprise?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
06-07-2011, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Why have the Borg, Ferengi, and Organians show up on Enterprise?
Ratings. That's not an entirely valid comparison. Enterprise needed ratings so they drew from the "popular hat", its the same mentality as to why there are multible CSI spin offs. Backers of a new series would rather feel comfortable and secure with the CSI name tagged on to ease their worry a new show won't do well, and come with a built in audience.

The part that slightly disturbs me is, the idea that players and aspiring authors would find the concept of being pushed to be creative and original with the material "a bad thing". That's kind of the vibe i am getting in this thread, i apologize if i am mistaken, i hope i am mistaken.

Quote:
Anyways, if Cryptic is making money off a mission based off of a Pocket book's book, then I would think the author of the book would be entitled to compensation, thus the problem.
BINGO! But at the same time as someone said earlier, the author does not own the rights to the Star Trek I.P.

On the other hand, they do have a right (pocket authors) to not have their exact story cloned and used elsewhere without proper permissions.

Using "things, a planet, a concept" from a pocket book authors story isn't necessarily a rip off of the story, basing a story off of a book also is "not a violation" unless you completely clone it, it would depend how much percent wise your story duplicates it. Every writer is basing a story off something, Babylon 5 is lord of the rings in space, for example.

You can make a mission that is "based" on a book, just change the names of people places and things and loosely use the plot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
06-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch99 View Post
Ratings. That's not an entirely valid comparison. Enterprise needed ratings so they drew from the "popular hat", its the same mentality as to why there are multible CSI spin offs. Backers of a new series would rather feel comfortable and secure with the CSI name tagged on to ease their worry a new show won't do well, and come with a built in audience.

The part that slightly disturbs me is, the idea that players and aspiring authors would find the concept of being pushed to be creative and original with the material "a bad thing". That's kind of the vibe i am getting in this thread, i apologize if i am mistaken, i hope i am mistaken.
I think being pushed to do it for free is a bad thing.

I can get paid to tell original stories. I do get paid to tell original stories. One aspect of being professional in an arts field is that you don't offer to work for free. You may agree to work for $1 for a friend but not for free.

If I'm going to do it for free, give me something to work with that I can't do on my own... in this case, access to the Star Trek IP, which the EULA seems to give us pretty broad access to but every subsequent clarifying statement seems to restrict further and further.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
06-07-2011, 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch99 View Post
Ratings. That's not an entirely valid comparison.
Okay here's a better one, Star Trek 2. By looking backward, they were able to create one of the most moving films in the Star Trek series. Do you really want to say ST2 would be better if they stripped out Khan and made it "J. Random Badman?"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
06-07-2011, 12:59 PM
Quote:
I can get paid to tell original stories. I do get paid to tell original stories. One aspect of being professional in an arts field is that you don't offer to work for free. You may agree to work for $1 for a friend but not for free.
I do commission graphic work and know what your saying. But playing in STO and authoring Foundry missions are not mutually exclusive.

We "choose" whether we wish to make missions because we are willing to partake in the game content we enjoy. DStahl also has been quoted as saying Foundry missions are material Cryptic will look at on resumes for job applications with them. They recognize that we are contributing our time and talent to which also benefits them, of course they do, but its still "a choice" we have.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
06-07-2011, 01:07 PM
Quote:
Okay here's a better one, Star Trek 2. By looking backward, they were able to create one of the most moving films in the Star Trek series. Do you really want to say ST2 would be better if they stripped out Khan and made it "J. Random Badman?"
We will never know now will we? Moot point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
06-07-2011, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch99 View Post
I do commission graphic work and know what your saying. But playing in STO and authoring Foundry missions are not mutually exclusive.

We "choose" whether we wish to make missions because we are willing to partake in the game content we enjoy. DStahl also has been quoted as saying Foundry missions are material Cryptic will look at on resumes for job applications with them. They recognize that we are contributing our time and talent to which also benefits them, of course they do, but its still "a choice" we have.
They really are mutually exclusive in terms of time spent.

My choice to make STO missions is based on the counter-offer of access to the IP. As access to that IP diminishes, so too does my interest in making Foundry missions.

I can understand witholding actor likenesses because neither CBS nor Cryptic has the right to grant us that. Anything else withheld is withheld by choice on their part, which weighs into my choice as to whether or not I choose to participate.

While we're on the subject of IP ships... My first mission makes use of an alternate Enterprise. I tailored the story NOT to interfere with the canon story or the IP but to creatively utilize the EULA to the full extent offered.

So... I'm wondering if I can change the name of that ship to the U.S.S. Lollipop or if I'm banned from showing a ship named the Lollipop because Riker mentioned the "good ship Lollipop" in an episode.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
06-07-2011, 01:12 PM
@Leviathan99, I do somewhat agree with you that they may be oversensitive about what is allowed i am wondering if the sting from the lawsuit Marvel comics hit City of Heroes with a while back, is part of that initial apprehension on their part?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
06-07-2011, 01:13 PM
I think a narrow interpretation of the EULA is best. The more we clarify the rules the better it will be as it will remove the violators. We don't want to break the rules.

We need to keep coloring in the lines, and asking for clarification of the lines so we can sharpen in and produce the most narrow-focus Rules Approved stories, the EULA will allow. Don't think of it as limiting yourself, think of it as a means of self correction. We need to flag the stories which violate the rules, as now clarified, and remove them from circulation in favor of correct stories.

If an an author can't follow these simple rules, perhaps they should try writing somewhere else.
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