Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
06-06-2011, 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Its hard to judge covariants vs. regenerative shields, because people play differently when using either of them. Let me bet, you compared the effect of both shields at 125 shield power ? well covariants users usually do not have that.

Hence its more or less 125 shield power for regen vs. 90-100 for covariants. Now those extra 25 shield power for regen do give a lot better results. If you compare both situations. And its very visible if both shields would be victims of tachyon beam + charged particle burst combo.
Actually, it's very visible as a Regenerative Shield users shields are suddenly down and a Covariants shield users shields are still up. Sure the Regenerative Shield comes back faster, but part of that speed is only a consequence of the UI - you have less shield points to recover in the first place. And if nothing else would happen to your ship in the meantime, the covariant shields would _still_ be regenerating when your regenerative ones are already full. And not just because they regenerate slower - but they have more points to regenerate before the regeneration ends.

You might be correct about relative shield power values, but even then you ignore that there is an opportunity cost involved in getting your shield power that high. And what does a Covariant shield user get out of that? Worst case would be weapon power (but that's unlikely, you'll certainly max both weapon and shields), but engine and auxillary power can't be ignored either. One improves your maneuverability and speed, the other improves various science buffs - some of which can give you additional shield healing and shield resistances (and more than you would get from better regeneration.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
06-06-2011, 05:52 AM
Don't forget cruisers can chain two different EPtX powers, one of those is usually EPtS. Higher shield power benefits extended shields...hell my Galaxy R, extended shields III is 42% and awesome heal on the top. So there is certain synergy in it.

Of course, some builds/career choices work poorly with it, while other works flawless. Engineer with Rotate shield frequency would always prefer high cap shields, because of the extra heal of course for example.

Regenerative shields just require more effort at gearing ship / power settings, while covariants are no brainier for that matter.

Beside, if regenerative shields are so bad...we should perhaps cry NERF COVARIANTS, or boost regenerative ? I'm not aware, of any "true" pvpers screaming about it as they do about everything OP...so there seems to be no problem at all. Unless they are hypocrites, and don't want to nerf, something they are using :p

Hence why I said its personal preference. I wouldn't say either is better/worse, its much more complicated. But I don't spit on one, just because I do not use the other.....as is it the case of many people on forums

Anyway, for newbies -> covariants all the way.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
06-06-2011, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Don't forget cruisers can chain two different EPtX powers, one of those is usually EPtS. Higher shield power benefits extended shields...hell my Galaxy R, extended shields III is 42% and awesome heal on the top. So there is certain synergy in it.

Of course, some builds/career choices work poorly with it, while other works flawless. Engineer with Rotate shield frequency would always prefer high cap shields, because of the extra heal of course for example.

Regenerative shields just require more effort at gearing ship / power settings, while covariants are no brainier for that matter.

Beside, if regenerative shields are so bad...we should perhaps cry NERF COVARIANTS, or boost regenerative ? I'm not aware, of any "true" pvpers screaming about it as they do about everything OP...so there seems to be no problem at all. Unless they are hypocrites, and don't want to nerf, something they are using :p

Hence why I said its personal preference. I wouldn't say either is better/worse, its much more complicated. But I don't spit on one, just because I do not use the other.....as is it the case of many people on forums
NERF all shields. Its the 21st century...errr 25th century we should have peace.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
06-06-2011, 06:03 AM
I think shields could use some balance work. but lets worry about them fixing faw/pengs first eh? :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
06-06-2011, 06:18 AM
Quote:
I think shields could use some balance work. but lets worry about them fixing faw/pengs first eh? :p
No, I want them to have fixed everything right now! *stomps with feet*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
06-06-2011, 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamupp View Post
I think shields could use some balance work. but lets worry about them fixing faw/pengs first eh? :p

Yeah I await the 16th for the fix to pengs only see the fix is broken farther with HYT tripling the secondary explosion and nuking all enemies within 30KM but my thoughts could be a little melodramatic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
06-06-2011, 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Don't forget cruisers can chain two different EPtX powers, one of those is usually EPtS. Higher shield power benefits extended shields...hell my Galaxy R, extended shields III is 42% and awesome heal on the top. So there is certain synergy in it.

Of course, some builds/career choices work poorly with it, while other works flawless. Engineer with Rotate shield frequency would always prefer high cap shields, because of the extra heal of course for example.

Regenerative shields just require more effort at gearing ship / power settings, while covariants are no brainier for that matter.

Beside, if regenerative shields are so bad...we should perhaps cry NERF COVARIANTS, or boost regenerative ? I'm not aware, of any "true" pvpers screaming about it as they do about everything OP...so there seems to be no problem at all. Unless they are hypocrites, and don't want to nerf, something they are using :p

Hence why I said its personal preference. I wouldn't say either is better/worse, its much more complicated. But I don't spit on one, just because I do not use the other.....as is it the case of many people on forums

Anyway, for newbies -> covariants all the way.
The great benefit from Regens, are that on say a healing cruiser or SV (which should be running no more that EP2S1s) the lower shieldcap are much easier filled by EP2S1. Hell I didnt even use a FieldGen on my SC when I used that for my healer, prefering instead to maximize my ETs with 4 SIF Gens. For the same reason I ran Borg Engine, Shield and Console with a specialized deflector for my TSSs
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
06-06-2011, 08:21 AM
lol this topic is gold. Keep it up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
06-06-2011, 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
lol this topic is gold. Keep it up.
Yeah.. Good thread here.. Lotsa good advice that Can help newbies
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
06-06-2011, 10:03 AM
There are 4 things that matter when it comes to ship combat in STO:

1: Your Skill point build: You can live with aprox 7 points in most skills. 9 Points in the Performance Skills from the Engineering Section are useful since they improve each of your ships power settings beyond their base. With 7 in any Efficiencies you won't have at the settings 50 or 100. After that, it's about making sure you get the most out of your Weapon skills (Aprox 7 in the tier 1 and tier 2, then 9 in the tier 3). And Making sure your Bo skills are properly Pointed with at least 7 points to 9 points depending on the skills required for that Bo Power. And don't forget to make sure your Class skills are also properly stated out in space. Again 7-9 points amongst those skills will make them as effective as possible.

2: Your Bo Abilities: Your ship lives or dies based on your Bridge officer abilities. If your a Cruiser, or D'kyr Science vessel, Emergency Power to Shields 3 is a GREAT enginering defense skill. If you put the right points in your EPtS power, it should give about 30+ points to your shields, and high shield resistances for 30 seconds. More so if your a Joined Trill. If your ship doesn't have access to a Tier 3 Enginering slot, Emergency Power to shields 2 is still a good choice for defensive purposes. in the Tier 1 and 2 Science Slots of a Cruiser, Typically I go with Hazard Emitters 1 and Transfer shield strength 2. They give good resist buffs and shield recovery buffs despite the fact that your lacking a Science team. After that, it's all up to what your trying to do with your build, and the weapons your trying to use. If it's beams, Beam Overload for spike damage, Target Subsystem <System>, and even the current OP FAW are your best friends. If your trying to use Turrets and Cannons, Rapid Fire or Scatter Volley are your powers. If your more about Torpedoes, then High Yield 1 or 2 is your best bet if your in a cruiser with out a LtC Tac slot. Finally, try to find the power set up that works for you.

3: Gear: If you are max level, and your still running Mk 8 or below items, regardless if they are purple, your reducing the full potential your ship will be capable of. The Breen set by it's self isn't the BEST set, but it isn't a bad set either. I personally do not like the Engines if I'm using that Set on a ship. Mostly because they are Combat engines and those kind of engines aren't useful at the 50+ engine setting I am usually at and prefer Hyper Impulse Engines in that case. Consoles are also recommened to also get the highest bonuses you can at your max level. If you want your weapon damage to be high, try to get either Mk XII White, MK XII Green, or MK XI Blue tac consoles for that weapon energy or weapon type. If you can't find the console you want cheaply, try flying around Ker'rat and just killing borg. Or even try to complete the zone if you can. Ker'rat can be a great supply for either EC, or even getting those random drops of items you may suddenly need. Your weapons will vary based on the Energy your trying to spec into. As will your race abilities you choose when you first made your character. If you choose Accurate, you can probobly use weapons that are not [Acc] and do alright. Sure you might miss alot against a speedy Escort, but it might be doable. People sware by [CrtH] Weapons, and for good reason. Having weapons with improved Critical hit mean you'll do more damage because those weapons will crit more often. For Phaser Beam arrays, I like the ones you can buy for 7 Marks of Honor each, the Mk X [Acc] [CrtH] [CrtD] Other wise it depends on what your going for. There are some interesting Mk XI you can buy for 30 Emblems each that are also not bad. Also, if you don't have enough Marks of Honor, but you have plenty of emblems, don't forget you can trade Emblems for Marks of Honor.

4: You: Only you can be the determining factor of your ship's performance. Knowing when to use your Class Skills, Bridge officer skills, and even ship skills where necessary are important. When coming under fire, are you constantly balancing your shields while using powers like Emergency power to shields, or Transfer shield strength? Are you also using Tactical team to help soften an Alpha strike? When subnuked, what do you do then? Do you use your skills slowly and try to make sure you have a defensive skill avaliable for that dreaded moment? If it's time to run, did you remember to have Engine batteries? Is your Evasive manuevers up, or did you use it earlyer trying to catch a fleeing enemy? Do you have "Nitros" from the Mission a sector away from Ke'rat? (Sorry my memory is failing me on what that item is actually called right now.. ) These are all things that matter when in a fight, as well as trying to not stop. Because when your moving, you get a defense based on your ship, and the speed your moving. And that defense helps make people miss. If you stop, your defense will drop to nothing and people will be able to hit you, get better crits, and you'll improve their Crit Severity.

Now.. as far as Carriers and the Fed Side goes..

The Fed side can have their Carriers when the Klingon side gets more True Science ships. Right now the Klingon side has only ONE true science ship, and it's the Varanus. Where the Federation has more. It's what makes each side unique..

The Federation has more Science vessel class ships. And more unique type ships. Where as the KDF has Carriers, BoPs, and a majority of their ships can cloak. So if your going to ask for Carriers, the KDF needs Science ships. If you ask for BoPs, then the KDF would need more unique Escort type ships that are as powerful as ships like the MVAE.

I am not saying that either side needs ships like the other. Because personally I like that each side is unique in their own way where ships are concerned. But I do dislike when there is an imbalance in ship capabilities. And so far the Federation is in the imbalanced area with ships like the Intrepid-R, Excelesior-R, and MVAE. So before you go asking for a Carrier on the Fed side, try to remember what you do have, and what we don't.

Finally, this post, while long, is ment to be informative, not a "Learn to play" post. If you, the OP, take it as such, this line is to make sure you understand my intent is not malicious.
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