Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
06-08-2011, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Giving the KDF it's PvP levelling path back could certainly help. Currently, PvP at low tiers is barely existent.

If Cryptic wants to see more KDF players, but they can't produce fully fledged new content for it, they will have to do with other incentives that are cheaper to implement.

1) Double all Skill Point, Badge and Merit Rewards for FvK up to Vice Admiral
2) Add an Hourly 1 Emblem Mission (similar to the Exploration hourly) that you can get for winning one FvK match.
Back when the game first came out i was 100% kdf, i had deleted my lvl 6 fed and had two klinks, one sci one tac. Lvl'in wasn't that horrid but back then, the pve grind was bad but the pvp was frequent across all tiers and the xp was a lot higher.

I have recently gotten bored again and Moose got me into a game some may have heard of called world of tanks. Now this is not a perfectly balanced game by any means but the pvp system is rather good. It doesn't try too much to make every tank balanced in each tier, nor obviously does it attempt to balance tanks from different tiers even tho these tanks will face each other in the same battle (there are 10 tiers and a mix of light/med/heavy/TD's/SPG's in each, and the spread is about 3 tiers either side so a lvl 7 tank could fight lvl 10 and lvl 4 for example).

What the game attempts to do is balance the sides against each other. Each tank has a weighting for power, thus if you have two heavies and the other side only has 1 it is likely you will have more mediums while they have more lights to balance it out. In addition it has 15 players/side and only allows 3 man premades, which also add and extra weighting to your team so that the puggers gain an aditional advantage by having more fire power. Course once you are dead that is it, no respawn, however you can then leave the game (tho your tank remains) and use another tank in another match without losing any earned xp

A system like this would have been great for sto, the lower tiers where pvp is dead could still gain pvp matches by fighting in higher tier matches, the extra numbers make it feel more epic, it would require a huge reworking of the current skills in game or lower tier ships wouldn't have anything to offer as it stands and would explode without even bing the target with FAW as it is etc, yet it might be worth doing as right now the pvp is tired and dying and even a few fixes to faw etc is not going to save it, it really needs a fresh approch to make it start to feel that you are in a space battle that makes you think 'that was cool' not some tiny little fight that no longer holds anyones interest for the most part
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
06-08-2011, 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
This has been in the works since season 2 so I won't hold my breath. Right now it is damn near impossible to get STF runs on the KDF side.
The problem was/is, AFAIK, that the feature is included in a different branch of the Cryptic Engine, and season 4 also consists of merging the STO version of the branch with this one.

EDIT:

Yes, I think a weighting system in STO would be good. It would help PvE and PvP alike. Unfortunately, I think it would first require some reworking of the tiers and ship differences. The difference between a Tier 3 and a Tier 5 ship is too vast to use any weighting system appropriately. You don't want to send 20 Tier 3 ships against one Tier 5 ship to balance two sides of a team.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
06-08-2011, 08:23 AM
One point I would like to add is this. The reason why 80% of players in STO are Fed is because of the content. Its very simple, 80% of the content is for the Fed side. If Cryptic wants to see more Klingon players then they need to make more content for the Klingon side. Its just that simple! Most people do not play KDF do to the lack of content. Even if they were to make it a 60/40 split Fed/KDF on content it would be a big improvement over the 80/20 it is now and would go a long way in getting players to play on the Klingon side.

So if Cryptic is not going to do just that then I agree they need to merge what they have for the Klingon side in to the the Fed side and give all Klingon players access to all of the same missions (except the Klingon based ones). It sucks to go this way as it take the diversity out of the game but it looks like Cryptic missed its chance. Having two playable factions (truly playable factions) would have really put STO over the top as a game. But it does not look like Cryptic can or wants to do this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
06-08-2011, 08:34 AM
If STO could do the mixed tier/weighted teams like WOT does, PVP in STO would be teh awesome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
06-08-2011, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Unfortunately, I think it would first require some reworking of the tiers and ship differences. The difference between a Tier 3 and a Tier 5 ship is too vast to use any weighting system appropriately.
No. The difference between T1-2 and T5 is too big, but T3-T5 is perfectly fine. The main problem is that heals are scaled to ship tier and thus make heals from a T3 ship useless in a T5 environment. Removing this artificial restriction on healing and then applying level matching to get shields, healing and damage output to near T5-levels (considering the lack of T4/T5 skills for a T3 player) is probably enough to make it work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobO369 View Post
If Cryptic wants to see more Klingon players then they need to make more content for the Klingon side. Its just that simple! Most people do not play KDF do to the lack of content.
More content for the KDF is the wrong way. The KDF will never catch up with the Federation in terms of unique content and the vast majority of new content in the form of featured episodes is dual-faction.

I don't think you can motivate players to have a Klingon character just to experience the content they have already played as Feds a second time with cloak and a red UI colour scheme. There has to be a unique advantage to playing a Klingon. Making Klingons a true PVP faction with better PVP rewards than for Fed players could provide such a unique motivation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
06-08-2011, 10:57 AM
I agree that there should just be a more Mixed Que system then FvF, KvK, FvK. FVF was absolutely the WORST thing to happen to STO's pvp Que system.

Personally, I think the Que system should have looked like this:

Ground: Arena (Mixed) Klingons and Feds can be put into the same matches, and on the same teams. It can also be used for KVK or FVF based on just what pops.

Drozana, or the Neutral zone could be used as the place where Feds and Klingons can team together for PVP. Same could be said of the Gamma Orionis (Borg) system.

Ground: Arena (FvK) Typical Klingon vs Fed
Ground: Assault (Mixed)
Ground: Assault (FvK)

Space: Arena (Mixed)
Space: Arena (FvK)
Space: Capture and Hold (Mixed)
Space: Capture and Hold (FvK)

Sure Mixed would get used more then the FvK Queues. And they wouldn't necessarely have to "End" the war for that in the Queues. It could simply be, for the Rpers, situations where each side has to work together with another during said fight.

Of course for that to work, they still need to get the technology they promised us would be used for STFs, where Klingons and Feds could team together during those, to work first.. And they promised that to us over a YEAR ago.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
06-08-2011, 11:59 AM
I'm frustrated. I don't like playing my FED toons. I prefer more Klingon faction - but it's truth that our ships are a big joke right now - especially BOP and Craptor.
Earlier I would never think about something such peculiar but now I think that the solution is very simple Qaw....everything depends now on Cryptic.

Dear Cryptic

1. give FEDs and Klingons the same ships with identical: hulls, shields, crews, turn rate, special bonuses, cloak / battle cloak, pets, bridge stations...etc but - of course - with diferent skins and names. Every ship of the federation would have its identical equivalent in the Empire and in the future - also in the Romulan Empire.
But it also means federation carrier Some of FED players still think that Carrier is OP. Ok, take it and find yourself about it.
How long would take redesigning / designing new skins for ships - one or two months?

2. give FEDs and Klingons the same number of PVE content (missions, rewards).

We need clear rules, and balanced content.
The war must last .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
06-08-2011, 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilawpilath View Post
I agree that there should just be a more Mixed Que system then FvF, KvK, FvK. FVF was absolutely the WORST thing to happen to STO's pvp Que system.

Personally, I think the Que system should have looked like this:

Ground: Arena (Mixed) Klingons and Feds can be put into the same matches, and on the same teams. It can also be used for KVK or FVF based on just what pops.

Drozana, or the Neutral zone could be used as the place where Feds and Klingons can team together for PVP. Same could be said of the Gamma Orionis (Borg) system.

Ground: Arena (FvK) Typical Klingon vs Fed
Ground: Assault (Mixed)
Ground: Assault (FvK)

Space: Arena (Mixed)
Space: Arena (FvK)
Space: Capture and Hold (Mixed)
Space: Capture and Hold (FvK)

Sure Mixed would get used more then the FvK Queues. And they wouldn't necessarely have to "End" the war for that in the Queues. It could simply be, for the Rpers, situations where each side has to work together with another during said fight.

Of course for that to work, they still need to get the technology they promised us would be used for STFs, where Klingons and Feds could team together during those, to work first.. And they promised that to us over a YEAR ago.
agreed, FvF was....well, we warned them
8 months ago I don't think I would have agreed for cross-faction teamiing but now...yeha, i'll take anything.
and it makes sense, there's constantly splinter cells in the UFP and among the Klingon Houses.

I would bet that before we see it in pvp it's going to happen in Fleet Actions, after they add a Queue for 5-mans; and in shared exploration sectors.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
06-08-2011, 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post

1) Double all Skill Point, Badge and Merit Rewards for FvK up to Vice Admiral
2) Add an Hourly 1 Emblem Mission (similar to the Exploration hourly) that you can get for winning one FvK match.
The more I think about it, the more I think these two changes could save the KDF. I'd loooooove an hourly repeatable emblem mission in PvP, even if it were only one mission and even if it were only for winning. I fully acknowledge that I'm a horrible player (on some toons anyway -- I still have a few toons that I made back when I trusted that the various racials would be somewhat balanced against each other) but I win often enough to make that one win an hour. Making the emblem only come from wins would help drive away AFKers.

Another thing that might help would be to change the way PvE missions save progress. I'd always prefer PvP over PvE, but grinding PvE missions beats sitting around a space station waiting for queues to pop. The problem is that if I have to wait 30 minutes for a queue, I'm likely to be 30 minutes deep into a mission that I'm about to finish, and I'll lose all my progress if I take the queue. Part of what I hate so much about PvE is that I frequently running over the same 15 or 20 minutes of a mission all day long.

It might take a lot of work to set up every mission so that your progress is saved every 5 minutes or less, but that would also help the PvE crowd, so I'm hopeful that it might be something Cryptic might fix. Being able to queue for PvP while doing PvE missions would help bring players into PvP, reduce the number of players queueing but not accepting, and would tremendously help the PvP queues in the lower tiers.

Along the same lines, it would be nice if we could switch from shuttles to our regular ships without going to a space station. As things are right now, if we are doing a shuttle mission we can't queue for PvP (or in my case, forget that I was queued before I switch to the shuttle and then accidentally get into a match and have to immediately leave). The shuttle content is virtually worthless for PvPers since you can't queue while you're doing shuttle missions, and it dries up the queues a bit.




None of this is KDF-centered stuff, but if Cryptic is able to turn down the suck on advancing through PvP, that would also help improve the KDF experience.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
06-08-2011, 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
I am going to get jumped on by lots of hardcore klinks here.... but I have to ask the question.

Why are we still encouraging Cryptic to "Complete" the Klingon Faction?

I think its time we Klinks Realize our Faction will NEVER grow to a point for Cryptic to push hard to create Klink content to grow it further. The empire my friends is dying.

I would suggest... that perhaps its time for Cryptic to End the War between the Federation and Klingons in game... Allow Klingon players to Team properly with Federation players.... Allow Klinks to Fly Fed ships and sell them new fancy klink version Fed ship skins on the Cstore. Don't let Federation players touch the Klink ships. (No Federation Captains in cannon would trade there ships for klinks)

However make it MUCH easier for players to level there Klingons. Create a new Level 1 Klink tutorial that explains the peace process... let them protect the talks from Undine or something. When the tutorial is over, allow the player to progress with what little Klingon content there is.... Or hail the Federation Mission givers and get a modified Mission giving text... but Do the EXACT same misisons. (The federation would like to request Klingon assistance in the Beta Ursa Sector... ect ect )

Boom the Klingon instanly becomes a fun faction for people to play through for pve.... We can Delete all the FvK ques and just have an ARENA que.

This might seem like sacrilege, and anti Klingon. However its not intended to be. Its time for Cryptic to Admit that they will NEVER have the time to bring the Klingon Faction to Parity with the Federation Faction. This seems to me like a fairly quick way to bring the entire player base to one side... and offer a new way to experience the game.

I will be waiting with my 20 bucks... to get my Klingon Intrepid complete with Klingon Pirate Skin....
Because in any MMO it is good to have all factions with the same content. You wouldn't beleive how many people left the game when they realized how poorly the kdf was treated. Go on the MMO website and read how people feel about cryptic because of this.
Have you ever played a game that had an empty faction?
No, because no developer out there would have the gonads to do that.
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