Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
06-08-2011, 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Except just any ship has no business being T5

Connies don't belong as T5, neither do Miranda's NX class ships or Olympic class ships.
The Akira is one of the few exceptions, a ship that has been horribly misplaced, because it belongs to the last generation of 24th century starships.
Both the Nova and the Sabre, Tier 2 ships, are younger or the same age as the Akira. The Olympic class is ALSO from the 2370s, so it shouldn't be listed up there along with the NX and Miranda. (I'm guessing what you meant was "Oberth")

Since EVERY "free" Federation ship above T1 has at least one alternate skin designed and built in the 2400s, I'm not sure this argument can be made without concluding that ALL such ships should be at T5. (They are ALL newer than an canon ship)
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# 32
06-08-2011, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blayyde
Both the Nova and the Sabre, Tier 2 ships, are younger or the same age as the Akira. The Olympic class is ALSO from the 2370s, so it shouldn't be listed up there along with the NX and Miranda. (I'm guessing what you meant was "Oberth")

Since EVERY "free" Federation ship above T1 has at least one alternate skin designed and built in the 2400s, I'm not sure this argument can be made without concluding that ALL such ships should be at T5. (They are ALL newer than an canon ship)
Would be fine with me if every ship in the game had a max-level variant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 33
06-08-2011, 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
Would be fine with me if every ship in the game had a max-level variant.
Hmmm...

No.

I agree that if a player wants to fly ANY ship at top tier, he should be able to. Designing specific max tier versions of the same ships sounds like a huge amount of resources that could be better spent elsewhere.

Still, the ship upgrade system would allow for any low tier ship to advance to the top tier, if a player so chooses. Otherwise, he/she can switch a new ship from the next tier and keeep playing.

The T5 Excelsior grates particularly on my nerves. I have strong suspicions that there is nepotism involved in its being on the top tier with so good stats, but I have no evidence of it.

Strictly speaking any non-2409 ship should be fluff, and not competitive, regardless of level.

The appalling amount of "special cases" and "exceptions" demands all ships to be able to be "the main ship" for a player willing it to be so.

Adding the Akira to the "exception" list will makes matters even worse.

So, I repeat, making T5 versions of the ships is pointless, we need to upgrade our ships. All of them, or none, and if the answer is "none", I will start demanding that T5 ships be re-examined and re-assigned to more proper tiers. We need LESS T5 ships, not more.
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# 34
06-08-2011, 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth-Thanatos View Post
So, I repeat, making T5 versions of the ships is pointless, we need to upgrade our ships. All of them, or none, and if the answer is "none", I will start demanding that T5 ships be re-examined and re-assigned to more proper tiers. We need LESS T5 ships, not more.
what T5 ship doesnt belong in T5 according to you then ?
Lt. Commander
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# 35
06-08-2011, 11:21 AM
D-T: Agreed. Upgrades FTW. Tier system delenda est.
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# 36
06-08-2011, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CedricO
what T5 ship doesnt belong in T5 according to you then ?
The most glaring example is the Excelsior. It's only slightly younger than the 1701-A, and yet it's there. T4 should be its max tier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HF_Mudd
D-T: Agreed. Upgrades FTW. Tier system delenda est.
No, we need the tier system. what we don't need is keeping the ships chained to a specific tier. There is an "entry point" for a certain ship, but once reached that point, a player can choose, AND KEEP, that ship up to the end game. IF the player chooses to do so.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 37
06-08-2011, 12:02 PM
Stop crapping on the excelsior! =[
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 38
06-08-2011, 12:44 PM
I agree that we need a Tier system, but it is not and should not be tied to age. The fact is, there are only 7 Federation ships in this game that are over 50 years old: the TOS Connie, the Constitution refit, the Miranda, Oberth, Excelsior, NX Escort, and D'Kyr. The Cheyenne's age is not clearly stated in canon, but it looks to be a design placed somewhere between the Constellation and Galaxy, and thus would be around 2330, making it around 80 years old.

That leaves 14 ships that were built in 2360 or later, counting all variants of the Galaxy as one ship, and the same with the other "refits". So there are no more than 1/3 of the ships more than 50 years old. If you eliminate all of the ships which are more than 30 years old, you eliminate all of the canon. So essentially you've got 1/3 of the ships at Tier 1, and then all the rest at Tier 5. Which is as ridiculous as having all the ships at Tier 5.

Plus, the majority of those 100+ year old ships are Cruisers, with no Escorts. So that would imbalance the class selection at the lower Tiers. When you throw in the argument that you can make a ship of ANY Tier a modern ship of 2409 design, it just adds that much more.

An upgrade system is nice, but lacking that, the devs seem to be more interested in just making T5 versions of everything. It's a bit late to remove the T5 Excelsior, but at least at its "base" the Excelsior is T3. Which is the equivalent of an Akira or Cheyenne. And the equivalent of the much newer Nebula as well.
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# 39
06-08-2011, 12:48 PM
There has to be a T5 Akira. If the Excelsior can have a T5 Variant then so can the Akira
Lt. Commander
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# 40
06-08-2011, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth-Thanatos View Post
No, we need the tier system. what we don't need is keeping the ships chained to a specific tier. There is an "entry point" for a certain ship, but once reached that point, a player can choose, AND KEEP, that ship up to the end game. IF the player chooses to do so.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kekvin85 View Post
There has to be a T5 Akira. If the Excelsior can have a T5 Variant then so can the Akira
"Your logic is flawed."
-- Tuvok, "Live Fast and Prosper"
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