Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-04-2011, 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Because we need to punish team work....

Crazy idea as usual
Meh.. Dont you know this is a single player game, that happens to be online?

Youre supposed to play a everyone for themselves thing in PvP.. Perhaps changing any powers that work on others so they are for self only.. And ofcourse.. If one player hits another with a skill like b:tse, that player becomes immune to all other b:tsx - Or - If one player shoots at another, a miniinstance is created, where the two players can duke it out, without the bother that is focusfire or teamheals.

We cant have one of these gamedestroying groups of people ruining various Azurians gameplay, in this MMO.

/rage
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-04-2011, 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Lately, seems a growing trend since the addition of Target Subsystems Level 1 for the playerbase is that the frequency for multi-disabling has been exploiding. For instance, one targets the Engines, another Weapons, and another Shields. So a player can be rendered useless and vulnerable. While this can easily be fixed with a single Engineering Team, its not something almost all escorts and science ships have with them. So these player with these ships are easily neutralized unless they are within a strong team.

Not too long ago when this was becoming a problem with stacking same-type target subsystems, it was changed where the higher version of that target system attack. So I'm hoping the same can be treated for subsystem attacks as a whole, where in PvP only one Subsystem attack makes it through to a player. That or the Repair Subsystem skill is improved where it actually lowers the chance of being disabled, since the skill is currently regarded as broken.


Others like the old Tractor Beam + Gravity Well combo (bug is back) where players cannot escape and are easy targets, especially when Sensor Scramble is used where.

Or the new shield bypass with the Beta + FAW2/3 + DEM1/3 combo. Which DPS is seriously augmented by Pattern Alpha and Emergency Power to Weapons.



Since some (or most) Hardcore PvPers may disagree with what I just said, I welcome their input to have these abilities skill used moderately than a serious team advantage against single players.
This is PvP, some players will always try to use certain combinations of powers so you won't even have a chance to fight back.
Others fight exclusively in superior numbers, and as soon as you catch them alone, they run and cloak.
It's like fighting rats.

Only a small number of players do actually want to fight each other, most just want to destroy their targets, no matter how.
Thats why i don't waste my time any longer with PvP, it's just no fun.

Maybe i am just a noob, but i think that most "hardcore PvPers" are just routine-blinded, to reckoginze that PvP is in most cases just unfair IMHO.


Live long and prosper.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-04-2011, 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yreodred
This is PvP, some players will always try to use certain combinations of powers so you won't even have a chance to fight back.
Others fight exclusively in superior numbers, and as soon as you catch them alone, they run and cloak.
It's like fighting rats.

Only a small number of players do actually want to fight each other, most just want to destroy their targets, no matter how.
Thats why i don't waste my time any longer with PvP, it's just no fun.

Maybe i am just a noob, but i think that most "hardcore PvPers" are just routine-blinded, to reckoginze that PvP is in most cases just unfair IMHO.


Live long and prosper.
You do know the point of PvP is to blow other players up, right?

And yes, escort players search for the optimum DPS setups for their escorts... Just like Cruiser players look for the best combination of Engineering powers for healing and staying power.. Flaming them for using their best abilities, is the same as flaming a cruiser captain for using EP2S3, ETeam3, Extend, RSP and ASIF.

Playing escorts effectively is 100 times harder than playing a healstacked zombiecruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
07-04-2011, 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
You do know the point of PvP is to blow other players up, right?

And yes, escort players search for the optimum DPS setups for their escorts... Just like Cruiser players look for the best combination of Engineering powers for healing and staying power.. Flaming them for using their best abilities, is the same as flaming a cruiser captain for using EP2S3, ETeam3, Extend, RSP and ASIF.

Playing escorts effectively is 100 times harder than playing a healstacked zombiecruiser.
I don't flame anyone and i am not talking about using the abilites one has. I was referring to some tactics some players use, like attacking in superior numbers, cloaking as soon as you notice that you COULD loose, klingons that prefer to run instead to die in battle, 3 or 4 alpha strikes after another.
But the one thing no ones seems to be surprised of is to attack someone in superior numbers, continously.
I mean i have seen players who ran away when they didn't outmatch their enemy.

My point was that it is not fun, fighting someone using those tactics.
And why should i waste my time on a game mode i do not consider fun?
Getting double (or triple or even quadruple) teamed is not wht i call fun.

When i do PvP i always have to think about what Martok said to Work about the Jem Haddar:
"...They take no pleasure in what they do... nothing is glorified, nothing affirmed. To the Jem'Hadar, we are nothing more than targets to be destroyed!..."
Don't take that to seriously, but i think that could fit quite well to PvP IMHO.


Live long and prosper.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-04-2011, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yreodred
[color="DarkOrange"]I don't flame anyone and i am not talking about using the abilites one has. I was referring to some tactics some players use, like attacking in superior numbers, cloaking as soon as you notice that you COULD loose, klingons that prefer to run instead to die in battle, 3 or 4 alpha strikes after another.
THat sound like excellent tactics. It is your job to disrupt this tactics, and ensure that you fight on your terms.
If the Klingons use hit & run, work at countering it. (Maybe you need to start stacking subsystem disables, tractor beams and stealth debuffs?) Is that easy? Certainly not. But that is part of the challenge, and part of the fun.

Quote:
My point was that it is not fun, fighting someone using those tactics.
And why should i waste my time on a game mode i do not consider fun?
Getting double (or triple or even quadruple) teamed is not wht i call fun.
This doesn't happen in Arenas, for example, The teams are evenly matched. You have about 4 people at your side. Stick together. When the enemy focuses fire on you, your team mates should get on focusing heals on you.

In Capture & Holds or in Ker'rat - get yourself friends that fly together. If you fly solo there and the enemy doesn't, who's fault is that?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-04-2011, 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
If you fly solo there and the enemy doesn't, who's fault is that?
Wesley Crushers??

Let me see if I understand...Yreodred is complaining that players try to make the most out of any opportunities available in order to give themselves the best chance of success in any given encounter??

I'm glad he isn't a military adviser or we'd have never won WW2.

"...no sir I understand, it's just a bit unfair if we ALL attack Hitler together. Nobody likes zerging noobs, don't be a noob"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
07-04-2011, 05:38 AM
Whoa, no reason to go all Godwin on us! :p


In the end, some tactics I can see as not liking to use or see at all. For example spawn camping aka "deployment suppression". That's really pretty lame, but it's also something really artifically created by the system, because it forces us to enter an area at a particular point. But flying together or trying to isolate your enemy, ambushing him... All that is reasonably IMO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-04-2011, 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
THat sound like excellent tactics. It is your job to disrupt this tactics, and ensure that you fight on your terms.
If the Klingons use hit & run, work at countering it. (Maybe you need to start stacking subsystem disables, tractor beams and stealth debuffs?) Is that easy? Certainly not. But that is part of the challenge, and part of the fun.
Not possible if 5 BoPs are constantly cloaking and decloaking and since tractor beam doesn't help against Battlecloak, i see no defence against it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
In Capture & Holds or in Ker'rat - get yourself friends that fly together. If you fly solo there and the enemy doesn't, who's fault is that?
And thats why i don't do any PvP, just as simple...
Btw, if i see a lonely enemy, i don't need my friends to attack it, if i loose then i have no problem with that.
But calling my friends to help me, just because i COULD loose is just lame IMHO.
Ok i admit that i am old fashioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
Wesley Crushers??

Let me see if I understand...Yreodred is complaining that players try to make the most out of any opportunities available in order to give themselves the best chance of success in any given encounter??
If someone who claims to be honorable, rather attacks one FED cruiser with his 5 friends and runs away if 1 of them get destroyed, then i don't think that this has something to do with "make the most out of any opportunities" IMHO.

At least those players should be honest enough and play a Ferengi serving in the KDF. lol.
Btw. calling other players a "wesley crusher" is not very kind, don't you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
I'm glad he isn't a military adviser or we'd have never won WW2.

"...no sir I understand, it's just a bit unfair if we ALL attack Hitler together. Nobody likes zerging noobs, don't be a noob"
What does WWII have to do with PvP ?
And who is "we"? I don't think that you have been fighting in WWII.

Enough joking:
OT: my point was that there are certain tactics/game mechanics that are not to be changed very easily, so either one has to adapt or just don't do PvP anymore.
I mean STO is a game, and call me old-fashioned, but i think a game should be fun.

Live long and prosper.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
07-04-2011, 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yreodred
I don't flame anyone and i am not talking about using the abilites one has. I was referring to some tactics some players use, like attacking in superior numbers, cloaking as soon as you notice that you COULD loose, klingons that prefer to run instead to die in battle, 3 or 4 alpha strikes after another.
But the one thing no ones seems to be surprised of is to attack someone in superior numbers, continously.
I mean i have seen players who ran away when they didn't outmatch their enemy.

My point was that it is not fun, fighting someone using those tactics.
And why should i waste my time on a game mode i do not consider fun?
Getting double (or triple or even quadruple) teamed is not wht i call fun.

When i do PvP i always have to think about what Martok said to Work about the Jem Haddar:
"...They take no pleasure in what they do... nothing is glorified, nothing affirmed. To the Jem'Hadar, we are nothing more than targets to be destroyed!..."
Don't take that to seriously, but i think that could fit quite well to PvP IMHO.


Live long and prosper.
The same arguements could be used the other way around..

"Why is this cruiser using heals when he thinks he *could* lose"

Here is the deal.. Escorts (and BOPs) do large amount of damage.. They also have lower shield and hull - As well as lower healing potential than both SVs and Cruisers.

This game is build with PvP balance centering around 4v4 or 5v5 fights.. That is why a Cruiser in a 1v1 against a escort cannot be destroyed (outside a huge critical) - Ofcourse, the escort (with its lower hull and healing) cannot absorb the sustained damage over time of the Cruisers, and therefore have to disengage to get a breather..

We essentially have a stalemate, where neither ship can destroy the other (assuming equal skill)

Now add another ship on each side. A SV.

The Cruisers ally, can now use subsystem disruption, GWs, tractors and stun to prevent the escort from running outside weaponsrange.

The Escorts ally can drain the cruisers power, kill their systems and stun them... Or even SNB their resists away (if Sci Captain).. Opening for the escorts damage to actually threaten the cruiser.

You speak about how annoying it is to see the escort run away when damaged.. Its equally annoying to see the 30-40k damage you do on a Cruiser with resists up, being healed to full in mere seconds. Ive litterally seen a BO hit take a cruiser to ~10% from a 5k range cloakalphha, only to see it healed to 100% hull/shield before my quantums travel the distance.

Any decent cruiser specced for tanking/healing is invulnerable to any single ship outside a (very rare) large critical hit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
07-04-2011, 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
The same arguements could be used the other way around..
True

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
True...You speak about how annoying it is to see the escort run away when damaged.. Its equally annoying to see the 30-40k damage you do on a Cruiser with resists up, being healed to full in mere seconds. Ive litterally seen a BO hit take a cruiser to ~10% from a 5k range cloakalphha, only to see it healed to 100% hull/shield before my quantums travel the distance.

Any decent cruiser specced for tanking/healing is invulnerable to any single ship outside a (very rare) large critical hit.
Except your internet connection is bad enough so your reaction time is just too short.

Now imagine a cruiser which damage isn't that good as a escorts fights against another crusier.
Seeing the other heal from 50% to 100% is much more frustrating, since you have no means to do damage like a Escort.

As someone who likes to play independent of others, PvP is just not my cup of tea and not fun at all.
That was my point, some parts of the game are not just the right thing for everyone.


Live long and prosper.
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