Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
10-20-2011, 10:08 AM
idk, the article makes it sound like a field in the shape of the hull of the tank. The tests didn't seem to show what the field looked like. The diagrams showed a bubble, but digrams show concepts, not reality sometimes.
Lt. Commander
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# 112
10-20-2011, 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
idk, the article makes it sound like a field in the shape of the hull of the tank. The tests didn't seem to show what the field looked like. The diagrams showed a bubble, but digrams show concepts, not reality sometimes.
It's a highly-energized EM field generator, or possibly microwave. (That's speculation based on the article and the demonstrated effect of the device.) Coming from a single source, it's physically impossible for it to be anything BUT a sphere, unless you had outside interference. The "shape of the hull of the tank" just refers to the capacitor array that powers the discharge into the generator.
Lt. Commander
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# 113
10-20-2011, 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulif_Davis
It's a highly-energized EM field generator, or possibly microwave. (That's speculation based on the article and the demonstrated effect of the device.) Coming from a single source, it's physically impossible for it to be anything BUT a sphere, unless you had outside interference. The "shape of the hull of the tank" just refers to the capacitor array that powers the discharge into the generator.
The article explains that the field is generated by a "cloth like" capaciitor in the skin of the tank, which would make the field take on the shape of the tank, which is the emitter. It's not a point source unless the generator were inside thbody of the tank, which it doesn't cound to be.
Lt. Commander
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# 114
10-20-2011, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
The article explains that the field is generated by a "cloth like" capaciitor in the skin of the tank, which would make the field take on the shape of the tank, which is the emitter. It's not a point source unless the generator were inside thbody of the tank, which it doesn't cound to be.
Capacitors can't generate a powerful energy field. They STORE energy, not PROJECT it. It would take a capacitor as large as the tank itself to generate any kind of noticable energy field (as a side-effect of storing so much energy), and it wouldn't be anywhere close to enough energy to have any kind of effect on an explosive projectile. At most, it would be a static electricity field strong enough to make all your hairs stand on end.
Lt. Commander
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# 115
10-20-2011, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulif_Davis
It's a highly-energized EM field generator, or possibly microwave. (That's speculation based on the article and the demonstrated effect of the device.) Coming from a single source, it's physically impossible for it to be anything BUT a sphere, unless you had outside interference. The "shape of the hull of the tank" just refers to the capacitor array that powers the discharge into the generator.
It COULD be the shape of the ship if it's effectively a giant holo-emitter. (Holograms in Trek are given physical form with force fields.)

In STO, with photonic decoys, we have a sophisticated version of this technology.

What I would suggest if that's the design philosophy behind the skintight shields:

- They have to be designed specifically for the ship class. (Whereas I THINK conventional shields are NOT designed with the ship in mind but are mass produced.) This is one reason why I'd see it as a ship-specific feature.

- A smaller silhouette DOES mean a higher "dodge" chance or increased chance for the enemy to miss

But moreover, if what we're talking about is a forcefield tech more in line with a holo-emitter, creating a physical field around the ship, I think what we're looking at is almost the opposite of standard shields, given what we know about holograms' containment fields. Specifically:

- They'd have a high resistance to physical or kinetic damage.

AND

- A low resistance to energy damage. (Holographic containment fields are more susceptible to phasers.)

Specifically,the skintight shields would basically grant an attacker's phasers shield penetration (Holograms don't absorb phasers but allow them to pass through) while giving heightened resistance to kinetic damage.

In effect, I think the representation of this kind of shield in game might actually behave more like a second hull in a very weird sense given that a ship with shields modeled on a holographic containment field would allow phasers in (meaning you're taking direct phaser damage sooner) but would not be reduced at all by phasers.

These shields would allow a high percentage of phasers through (see: the Doctor's containment field) but would only be lowered by kinetic damage as well, meaning they stay up longer.

So... Imagine for a second that the shields allow more energy damage in but DO take longer to lower, coupled with a bonus dodge chance.

This could actually make it so that you're very difficult to kill but extra susceptible to beam boats and transphasics, creating a case where those might suddenly be the top DPS options.

What's interesting to me here is the idea that this hypothetical Sovereign would be subject to a slow direct DPS burn from phasers but that players would have to use torpedos or other kinetic damage to lower the shields. It almost turns standard gameplay upside down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
10-20-2011, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulif_Davis
Capacitors can't generate a powerful energy field. They STORE energy, not PROJECT it. It would take a capacitor as large as the tank itself to generate any kind of noticable energy field (as a side-effect of storing so much energy), and it wouldn't be anywhere close to enough energy to have any kind of effect on an explosive projectile. At most, it would be a static electricity field strong enough to make all your hairs stand on end.
Well, it would be counter productive for them to entirely explain how the system works. All i'm saying is how I interpreted the article. You may be right, but it didn't sound like a point source to me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
10-21-2011, 03:42 AM
I think people are losing track here, Several people have come up with idea on how to get this in the game and the devs should be looking at this and taking notes!. That if they haven't already thought of it.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 118
10-21-2011, 05:33 AM
I'd like to see more skintight - ... wait. This thread is not at all what I thought it was about. Carry on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 119
10-21-2011, 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAJ_2011
I think people are losing track here, Several people have come up with idea on how to get this in the game and the devs should be looking at this and taking notes!. That if they haven't already thought of it.
No, we're not off-track at all. There's 2 camps here, those that want skintight shields, and those that don't. And we're making arguments (both in-universe and in the real world) as to why only one kind of shield should exist.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
10-21-2011, 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulif_Davis
Capacitors can't generate a powerful energy field. They STORE energy, not PROJECT it. It would take a capacitor as large as the tank itself to generate any kind of noticable energy field (as a side-effect of storing so much energy), and it wouldn't be anywhere close to enough energy to have any kind of effect on an explosive projectile. At most, it would be a static electricity field strong enough to make all your hairs stand on end.
The article didn't do a good job explaining it fully:

The concept:


The tank is covered where-possible with a metallic substance that serves as a capacitor. Pumping low quantities of power over time the capacitor builds to a critical charge. This same material also allows the discharge of the energy into the surrounding space in a burst.


On impact of today's real world weapons, a spear-like super-heated object is ejected from the head of anti-tank projectiles.


The latest concept is the discharge of the capacitor generates a force between the molten projectile and the surface of the tank lessening the ability of the molten projectile to penetrate the surface of the tank. It does not project a field as the force dissipates exponentially with distance from the conductive plates. Whether the force is a kinetic force, magnetic force, or electric force is unclear from any public documents.



The idea is an evolution of the first tried concept:

A tank is plated with conductive parallel plates, where there exists a field within the plates. THe original idea was that the field would generate a force that would alter the impact trajectory of the molten projectile to a less harmful trajectory.




The spherical projection concept doesn't exist. Its an oversimplification for the uninformed individual who cant understand the physics behind parallel plates/coulombs law/capacitors/etc.
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