Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-16-2011, 03:59 PM
If you look at Nemesis the shield is indeed skin tight placed a few meters away from the hull, inside on the bridge the console readout reflects this by showing the shield facing close to the hull with the same shape.

The reason is that there is less distance between the generator and the shield layer making the shield stronger as the shields weakens by distances from the generator, hence it is possible to protect an other ship within your shields, but you would weaken them (multiple references to that in series)

As for inagme the extra time it would take to create this is better spend elsewhere, but it can be a side project in the future
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-16-2011, 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
Typically there's two sets of shields. There's an outer "bubble" layer, and an inner "skin-tight" layer. The latter protects against impacts, and can be controlled at will. You may recall in Voy: "Equinox" that they dropped shields on specific sections of the ship (bridge, cargo bay, etc). More than likely, this was the "skin-tight" shield, not the "bubble".
Source?

My source: The Technical Manuals. What do they state? You know all those recessed lines on the ships? Those are the shield grid generators. You could feasibly turn individual segments off. I've seen nothing about 2 shields.
Lt. Commander
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# 23
10-16-2011, 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
Source?

My source: The Technical Manuals. What do they state? You know all those recessed lines on the ships? Those are the shield grid generators. You could feasibly turn individual segments off. I've seen nothing about 2 shields.
the MLSS (multi layer shielding system) is more something from fan fiction I know many pen and paper RPG run with it to explain all the things the shields do, it is just a basic uncomplicated way of saying they do multiple things.

The sovy uses regenerative shielding, which is pretty simple a double set of shield generators, 1 on line 1 off line, once generator 1 of a certain section drops below X% number 2 kicks in allowing number 1 to re charge slowly. And the separate shield grinds close to the hull made them stronger and also with a grind in the bubble collapse it opens a far larger portion of your ship open to enemy fire compared to a single skin tight grid

That is what I can remember, note or caution it is nearly 2 am here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-16-2011, 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liandras
If you look at Nemesis the shield is indeed skin tight placed a few meters away from the hull, inside on the bridge the console readout reflects this by showing the shield facing close to the hull with the same shape.

The reason is that there is less distance between the generator and the shield layer making the shield stronger as the shields weakens by distances from the generator, hence it is possible to protect an other ship within your shields, but you would weaken them (multiple references to that in series)

As for inagme the extra time it would take to create this is better spend elsewhere, but it can be a side project in the future
It can't be hard to make this. A lot of people have asked for this since bridge commander days and even then i thought it was funny because BC timeline was set after nemesis I think and in the game they didn't even have skin tight shields and sto is set 30+ years after nemesis, where are the skin tight shields. Crytpic needs to do thier research.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-16-2011, 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAJ_2011
It can't be hard to make this. A lot of people have asked for this since bridge commander days and even then i thought it was funny because BC timeline was set after nemesis I think and in the game they didn't even have skin tight shields and sto is set 30+ years after nemesis, where are the skin tight shields. Crytpic needs to do thier research.
Thats because Bridge Commander pre-dates Star Trek nemesis. :p

To be fair though, most people are going to preferr canonicly established standards over stuff that appeared in a one off movie, which was not even a very good one at that.
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# 26
10-17-2011, 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
a one off movie
At least two... STVI had Skintight Shield for both the Excelsior and Enterprise... and they were even more tight than the Nemesis ones
Lt. Commander
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# 27
10-17-2011, 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelorKiith View Post
At least two... STVI had Skintight Shield for both the Excelsior and Enterprise... and they were even more tight than the Nemesis ones
Yes, but thats like 100 years earlier, and in STVI we even see how those skin shields are horribly ineffective, not shielding the hull from damage, but making sure that projectiles cannot just penetrate straight through the saucer.
TNG and onward the norm is bubble shields.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-17-2011, 04:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Yes, but thats like 100 years earlier, and in STVI we even see how those skin shields are horribly ineffective, not shielding the hull from damage, but making sure that projectiles cannot just penetrate straight through the saucer.
TNG and onward the norm is bubble shields.
Wha..wha...what?
Last time I checked the torpedoes in Star Trek VI did not simply penetrate anything until Scotty said "shields collapsing!"

The shields of the Enterprise were just not strong enough to hold off the entire damage thrown against them.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2346/enttorp1.png

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4411/enttorp2.png

as you can see there is a black spot where the first torpedo hit.
It did not penetrate the saucer.

When you compare that to the hit on the Excelsior saucer:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9692/extorp1.png
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/114/extorp2.png
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/8050/extorp3.png
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2659/extorp4.png
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/8251/extorp5.png
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4745/extorp6.png
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/184...1713h39m10.png

no damage to the Excelsior.
So it's not really the type of shields, it's just that the Constitution class had crappy shielding.

Besides: since the Post-Nemesis USS Pasteur once again has bubble-shields it becomes clear it's just a matter of available budget.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KKtmE4MH4F...-NCC-58928.jpg

*EDIT: "Movies", not "Bovies"* have higher Budget so they sometimes have skintight shields.
Modern CGI also allowed something like that on "Enterprise" (it works exactly like shields it just has another name)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-17-2011, 04:55 AM
Actually thats my point, the shields may have been weak on the Ent A, but its still a flaw of the skin tight shields.
With bubble shields you won't get that kind of hull damage until they actually fail completely.

Enterprise didn't have any kind of shield type effects.
The entire idea with polarized hull plating is that electromagnetism makes the material more resistant to damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-17-2011, 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Actually thats my point, the shields may have been weak on the Ent A, but its still a flaw of the skin tight shields.
With bubble shields you won't get that kind of hull damage until they actually fail completely.
The reason why we did not see anything of that nature in TNG was because there was no budget to show any kind of hull damage.
Take "Yesterday's Enterprise" as an example:
The Klingons kept punding the Enterprise-D's saucer long after the shields had collapsed yet there was no visible damage on it whatsoever.
So the correlation is actually that when there is budget to show skintight shields, there is also budget to show hull damage not that skintight shields make the ship more vulnerable.
Besides when the Excelsior can hold off the damage even though she has the supposedly "ineffecte shielding" does that say something about the shield concept or just about the performance gap between the old Connie Refit and the Excelsior class?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Enterprise didn't have any kind of shield type effects.
The entire idea with polarized hull plating is that electromagnetism makes the material more resistant to damage.
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...rgence_447.jpg
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...rgence_448.jpg
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...rgence_449.jpg

yes there was a shield effect.
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