Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
10-17-2011, 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
They probably were out of charcter shields and plot armors before they stuffed out the entire fleet.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotArmor
Isn't posting links to tvtropes violating some Geneva Convention or at least something that calls for a DEA investigation?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
10-17-2011, 06:43 AM
I think that the best way to see this in game would be to think about it in game mechanics. I don't see the devs spending a lot of time on this just for the visual aesthetic, but add in a game mechanic and they might be more willing... Here's my suggestion

Bubble shield - Works as current or grants a higher shield absorption vs kinetic weaponry.

Skin tight shield - Increased damage resistance/absorption for all weaponry, but increased shield penetration for all kinetic weaponry.

So basically more damage is directly absorbed/resisted by the shields for both Energy and kinetic weaponry without causing damage to the shields themselves, but because of their skin tight nature, more of what remains (after the absorption) of the kinetic damage penetrates the shields and damages the hull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Isn't posting links to tvtropes violating some Geneva Convention or at least something that calls for a DEA investigation?
Certainly qualifies for war crimes/internet terrorism in my book... the amount of hours I've lost to that damn website... :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
10-17-2011, 06:48 AM
From "Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" on page 14 and I quote

"An untested defense system, verified by computer, was chosen to protect the Enterprise from what ever hostile action she might encounter. Her Main deflector shields, make possible by a breakthrough in Federation defense technology, were designed to be stronger and more resilient then any in use. In this new technology, a coil of diburnium-osmium alloy (a substance created by the lost Kalandan race; discovered on Stardate 5978.2 by the Enterprise crew and recorded by Science Officer Spock) was placed within a reinforced titanium,/transparent aluminum mount, scanned at the subatomic level, then replicated and projected as energy at an adjustable point beyond the vessel's outer hull. This energy layer, acting as a solid, in effect became another layer of metal on the ship's exterior. Insulated from the true hull by a small space, the invisible shield was designed to replenish its "molecular" structure continually for as long as source energy was available."

This is the skin tight shield your referring to. Further more

from the Star Trek The Next Generation Technical Manual, page 138 Section 11.8 heading: Deflector Shields

"Like most forcefield devices, the deflector system creates a localized zone of highly focused spatial distortion within which an energetic graviton field is maintained. The deflector field itself is emitted and shaped by a series of conformal transmission grids on the spacecraft exterior, resulting in a field that closely follows the form of the vehicle. This field is highly resistive to impact due to mechanical incursions ranging from relativistic subatomic particles to more massive objects at lesser relative velocities. When such an intrusion occurs, field energy is concentrated at this point of impact creating an intense, localized spatial distortion."

In fact it isn't until the Star Trek DS9 Technical manual under Section 10.5 page 91 Deflector Shields that it even uses the world "bubble"

However as we have seen, even from as far back as TNG the shields are depicted as a "Bubble"

It could be said the shields can be adjusted from being skin tight TO bubble size, hence the idea of extending shields. and Also the concept of a bubble would allow for the application of the "Egg Yolk" Theory, in which the "bubble" will bend and distort to cushion impact and reflect it away.

-
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
10-17-2011, 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentExeider View Post
From "Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" on page 14 and I quote

"An untested defense system, verified by computer, was chosen to protect the Enterprise from what ever hostile action she might encounter. Her Main deflector shields, make possible by a breakthrough in Federation defense technology, were designed to be stronger and more resilient then any in use. In this new technology, a coil of diburnium-osmium alloy (a substance created by the lost Kalandan race; discovered on Stardate 5978.2 by the Enterprise crew and recorded by Science Officer Spock) was placed within a reinforced titanium,/transparent aluminum mount, scanned at the subatomic level, then replicated and projected as energy at an adjustable point beyond the vessel's outer hull. This energy layer, acting as a solid, in effect became another layer of metal on the ship's exterior. Insulated from the true hull by a small space, the invisible shield was designed to replenish its "molecular" structure continually for as long as source energy was available."

This is the skin tight shield your referring to. Further more

from the Star Trek The Next Generation Technical Manual, page 138 Section 11.8 heading: Deflector Shields

"Like most forcefield devices, the deflector system creates a localized zone of highly focused spatial distortion within which an energetic graviton field is maintained. The deflector field itself is emitted and shaped by a series of conformal transmission grids on the spacecraft exterior, resulting in a field that closely follows the form of the vehicle. This field is highly resistive to impact due to mechanical incursions ranging from relativistic subatomic particles to more massive objects at lesser relative velocities. When such an intrusion occurs, field energy is concentrated at this point of impact creating an intense, localized spatial distortion."

In fact it isn't until the Star Trek DS9 Technical manual under Section 10.5 page 91 Deflector Shields that it even uses the world "bubble"

However as we have seen, even from as far back as TNG the shields are depicted as a "Bubble"

It could be said the shields can be adjusted from being skin tight TO bubble size, hence the idea of extending shields. and Also the concept of a bubble would allow for the application of the "Egg Yolk" Theory, in which the "bubble" will bend and distort to cushion impact and reflect it away.

-
The larger the Egg the larger the surface area that can be hit.

In War you want the least amount of surface area.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
10-17-2011, 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeochins
The larger the Egg the larger the surface area that can be hit.

In War you want the least amount of surface area.
The big issue is that the simplest forms of nature are spheres and "eggs" (or ovoids) so it's actually physically easier to project some kind of "egg" instead of a complex shape like that of a ship.
So it's probably a tradeoff, do you invest too much energy to mimic the shape of the ship or do you make a bubble that might get hit more often but possibly holds longer because it's more energy-efficient?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
10-17-2011, 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
The big issue is that the simplest forms of nature are spheres and "eggs" (or ovoids) so it's actually physically easier to project some kind of "egg" instead of a complex shape like that of a ship.
So it's probably a tradeoff, do you invest too much energy to mimic the shape of the ship or do you make a bubble that might get hit more often but possibly holds longer because it's more energy-efficient?
Actually that's not quite true in physics. The repulsive force dissipates exponentially the further your project from a point (your sphere or egg). So to generate the same force you need exponentially more charge.


The most energy-cost efficient method of generating a repulsive force is using a plate where the bulk of the repulsive force is a thin uniform layer just outside of the plate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
10-17-2011, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Isn't posting links to tvtropes violating some Geneva Convention or at least something that calls for a DEA investigation?
Probably, but as this review proves

http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated...review-4576249

not all crimes that violate the Geneva Convention are investigated and prosecuted otherwise "Enterprise" would have been shut down right after this episode.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
10-17-2011, 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeochins
Actually that's not quite true in physics. The repulsive force dissipates exponentially the further your project from a point (your sphere or egg).


The most energy-cost efficient method of generating a repulsive force is using a plate where the bulk of the repulsive force is a thin uniform layer just outside of the plate.
Shields are a different kind of repulsive force and are generated from a single source. (Hence "Target shield generators.")
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
10-17-2011, 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeochins
Actually that's not quite true in physics. The repulsive force dissipates exponentially the further your project from a point (your sphere or egg). So to generate the same force you need exponentially more charge.


The most energy-cost efficient method of generating a repulsive force is using a plate where the bulk of the repulsive force is a thin uniform layer just outside of the plate.
...which would however require the entire surface of the ship to be equipped with such plates.
Including all the openings (like deflector, windows,warp nacelles and surfaces that actually have sensor palletes) or there would be no proper shielding on them except that which comes from the plates surrounding them.
And in those places the field will once again be ovoid.

As for real-life references:

"A University of Washington group in Seattle has been experimenting with using a bubble of charged plasma to surround a spacecraft, contained by a fine mesh of superconducting wire.[1] This would protect the spacecraft from interstellar radiation and some particles without needing physical shielding."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_field
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
10-17-2011, 07:43 AM
Also... Combat is a small part of Trek ships' function, even warships. Shields are down when at warp. The vast bulk of the task for every ship we've seen is moving people from point A to B. This is true for the Dominion. Maybe that's not entirely true for Klingon CULTURE but they didn't design many of their own ships so we'll let that slide a bit. (Also, consider the function of cloak. Even Klingons, itching for combat, would prefer to have their battles on the ground.)

We've never seen a ship in Trek fully dedicated to combat and the ones that were were designed to get in some hits and AVOID combat.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:09 PM.