Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
06-09-2011, 11:10 AM
Jubbe' [Seeker] class Raptor

Hull: 33000
Turn Rate: 15
Impulse Modifier:0.2
Inertia: 60
Weapons: 3/3
Cloak

Consoles:
Engineering: 2
Science:3
Tactical:4

BO setup:
Lt. Engineering
Ensign Science, LtC Science
Lt Tactical, Commander Tactical
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
06-09-2011, 11:10 AM
I'm assuming everyone on here who thinks the Raptor is fine and dandy either play as Feds or don't PvP much? I have flown a Raptor as my primary ship since the beginning of STO and I definitely think it needs some love with the changes that we have seen to PvP since then. Furthermore, I don't want to sound like an arrogant ass but the number of good Raptor pilots is exceptionally low. I can think of many great BoP pilots been incredibly few Raptor ones......that isn't because of coincidence.

Various Ideas I have for the Raptor....obviously not ALL of these. *That was my disclaimer for those who are reading impaired.

1. Increased turn rate.
2. Battle Cloak instead of Standard Cloak
3. Replace the Ensign Tac station with either a Engineer or Science station
4. Replace one Science Console with a Universal Console? Just thought of this one but not enough to think if it would be a good/bad idea...opinions?


Those are the ones I've come up with that I think would be easy to implement without being game breakers. My hope would be to provide a nice alternative to the BoP for KDF players in end game PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
06-09-2011, 11:10 AM
Quote:
1. Increased turn rate.
2. Battle Cloak instead of Standard Cloak
3. Replace the Ensign Tac station with either a Engineer or Science station
4. Replace one Science Console with a Universal Console? Just thought of this one but not enough to think if it would be a good/bad idea...opinions?
2 sounds like something people have asked for the Tactical Escort Retrofit... I think it's an unreasonable request.

Things that I never expect to change (at least until the Romulans become available)
1) Only BoPs have acccess to Battlecloak
2) Every ship class at tier 5+ will have access to at least 2 consoles of every type.

Maybe the fact that the BoP is favored over the Raptor gives even more credence to the idea that the BoP is overpowered? Or if not the BoP is overpowered, that the powers are not well enough balanced, making a cross-class combation of Commander and Lt.Cmdr slot more effective then the existing ones?

I know that with a worse console layout and a better turn rate than the Raptor, the Tactical Escort Retrofit is one of the most seen Escorts in the game. The second favored always seemed to have been Fleet Escort. The MVAM might have changed things.

So I think that's everything that you need to change with the Raptor. Ditch the engineering console, add 2 points of turn rate.

If you change its Ensign to an Engineering Ensign, you basically have a Fleet Escort with cloak. Can that really be balanced? I think not. I find it already questionable that the Neg'Var has the same hp as all Tier 5 Cruisers on the Fed side, and a vastly better turn rate. But arguably, for a Cruiser the turn rate is not as crucial. (Yet, people that complain the Excelsior is OP make this as one major argument for the ship).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
06-09-2011, 11:10 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorFury View Post
I'm assuming everyone on here who thinks the Raptor is fine and dandy either play as Feds or don't PvP much?
Well I have just recently started flying the Qin, but I didn't think I was doing it in a fedly manner. :p

Quote:
1. Increased turn rate. - I would like this at the cost of a Science console slot.
2. Battle Cloak instead of Standard Cloak - I disagree due to the same reasons as Mustrum.
3. Replace the Ensign Tac station with either a Engineer or Science station - Or make it a U-slot.
answers in red.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
06-09-2011, 11:10 AM
What would happen if we went a radical route - make the Raptor (at all tiers) a Science/Tactical hybrid instead of an Escort?
That would basically turn it exactly into what the MVAM has now at tier 5, minus the MVAM mode, but plus cloak and an regular science console.

I am opposed to adding Science Vessels to all tiers for the KDF. If we do that, we will have Federation BoPs as well, soon. And then, Carriers. Nothing of that I want either. I like the factions to be different.

But it would make sense to me that the KDF would put a focus on "tactical exploration". E.g. they fly into hostile territory, scan the dung out of it, and then conquer everything that seems worthy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
06-09-2011, 11:10 AM
HMM, some interesting points indeed overall.
On the one hand we have the question whether the Klingons should have a variety to their Raptor fleet similar to the Federation Escort fleet, which might moke the BoP somewhat obsolete.
On the other hand there is the question how balanced such additions would be given that the Raptor has more hullpoints unless I'm mistaken) and a cloak while keeping the same amount of consoles as its Federation counterparts.
Does this mean that since the Raptor has more HP and a cloak that it must remain as "overspecialized" as it is right now, given that is has 3 tactical consoles?
Or does it mean that additional variants, like the "Reconaissance in force" version I posted, should have some kind of disadvantage to offset its increased flexiibility?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
06-09-2011, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
What would happen if we went a radical route - make the Raptor (at all tiers) a Science/Tactical hybrid instead of an Escort?
That would basically turn it exactly into what the MVAM has now at tier 5, minus the MVAM mode, but plus cloak and an regular science console.

I am opposed to adding Science Vessels to all tiers for the KDF. If we do that, we will have Federation BoPs as well, soon. And then, Carriers. Nothing of that I want either. I like the factions to be different.

But it would make sense to me that the KDF would put a focus on "tactical exploration". E.g. they fly into hostile territory, scan the dung out of it, and then conquer everything that seems worthy.
I would persoanlly like the idea better as one of Mister_Dee's science converted "scouts" concepts. A Science/Tac Raptor could just be the support vessel for said (scout) BoPs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
06-09-2011, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
What would happen if we went a radical route - make the Raptor (at all tiers) a Science/Tactical hybrid instead of an Escort?
That would basically turn it exactly into what the MVAM has now at tier 5, minus the MVAM mode, but plus cloak and an regular science console.

I am opposed to adding Science Vessels to all tiers for the KDF. If we do that, we will have Federation BoPs as well, soon. And then, Carriers. Nothing of that I want either. I like the factions to be different.

But it would make sense to me that the KDF would put a focus on "tactical exploration". E.g. they fly into hostile territory, scan the dung out of it, and then conquer everything that seems worthy.
I find it somewhat ironic that you think turning a Raptor into more of a MVAE rather than something like giving it a battle cloak is ok. I would love if it had a Lt Commander Science Boff with a vastly improved turn rate but that is way more OP then any of the things I listed if you want the honest truth. Having a Commander Tac and giving up the LT commander Tac station for a LT Commander Science is no big deal really. I'll just use Tac Initiative but gain the incredible versatility that the LT Commander science would offer. I honestly would oppose this because it really would be too good.

Buffing the raptor has nothing to do with a BoP being too powerful at all. In fact the new MVAE is superior to a BoP so where exactly does that leave a Raptor in the food chain? Probably the easiest fix would be to either simply increase the turn rate or give it a battle cloak. People who are critiquing the Raptor please post who you are in game as i'd at least like to see you in action flying one. I think that is a fair request and not meant to be condescending. Like I said I have flown this ship extensively and feel like I'm a pretty damn good judge of its abilities and limitations. I'm definitely open for debate but at least I'd like to know who is who so I can get a better appreciation for their experience with this ship in game.

Blackjack
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
06-09-2011, 11:10 AM
I like my raptor just like it is thanks. Someone mentioned new skins ...that would be ok.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
06-09-2011, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohNyNorMuS View Post
Ghostwulf is a pretty hardcore pvp'er. If i see him on.. 9/10 his in a pvp with ash
Johnny waz up :p
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:14 PM.