Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Defensive / Survivability / Support -


#1. Star Cruiser

#2. Galaxy-R

#3. Sovereign / Galaxy-X *

#4 Galaxy-X / Excelsior *

#5. Excelsior


Disclaimers: Galaxy-R requires patience because of the bugs / occasional broken saucer features and it also requires a more experienced pilot. Excelsior can dramatically climb on the list in rare occasions where Attack Pattern Omega I is the determining factor that saves your ship. Galaxy-X is actually lower then the Sovereign in terms of survivability due to the 20% reduction in base turn rate however I factored in the fact you could always EPtE / evasive and re-cloak out of combat. Also it is unlikely that the Galaxy-X will sustain the first alpha hit in most PvP encounters. Honestly it was a tough choice to put the Galaxy-X above the Excelsior in terms of survivability. The Excelsior can have APO I and also turns better then any fed cruiser in the game with the exception of Galaxy-R separated. If you are running APO I the Excelsior's survivability position could be increased to #3 in many encounters and certainly at least equal to that of the Galaxy-X


Offensive / Tactical -

#1. Excelsior

#2. Galaxy-R

#3. Sovereign

#4. Star Cruiser / Galaxy-X


Disclaimers: This is more straight forward with the exception of the Galaxy-R again requiring a competent pilot with adequate skill to take advantage of it's features. There are also certain bugs with the Galaxy-R that are beyond any Captain's control. You will also lose your tactical advantage if you blow up or a number of Cryptic bugs appear. However in some less frequently occurring set of circumstances the Galaxy-R could actually exceed the Excelsior in offensive capabilities even with one less LtC and tactical console slot. It would take another post to go over all the details but +10 Weapon power, +35% turn rate, increased offensive speed, added pet damage (when it's alive), etc. etc. Let's call that the exception however and not the rule.

Galaxy-X is actually inferior to the Star Cruiser in offensive capabilities in many circumstances but because of the cloak damage bonus and Phaser Lancer it could be on par with the Star Cruiser if piloted by a good player. Galaxy-X takes a major hit because it turns like the Galaxy-R when the saucer is connected. This is the absolute worst turn in the entire game at T5 level and to compensate for it you would have to go with other BO abilities thus losing offensive power or lose 2 Engineering console slots. This is just to equal a normal T5's cruiser turn rate in most circumstances.


__________________________________________________ ________________________________________


The above lists were created based on factual information, experiences, along with my opinions from countless encounters in PvP verses the best players and teams STO has to offer, premade vs. premade team matchs, kerrat encounters, solo and group pug matches, 1v1's, etc. etc.

The above assessments are correct if the disclaimers are respected. Obviously the Excelsior is still new so more data needs to be collected to come to a final conclusion but it's not rocket science.


Note the order of the list depends heavily on your BO loadout, ship loadout, and player ability.

Example 1: A well built offensive BO Sovereign ship loadout could be less offensive and have less survivability then an Excelsior in certain circumstances where the Excelsior is running APO I.

Example 2: A Galaxy- X could easily be less defensive then all of the ships if the captain does not use the cloaking ability + EPtE in nasty situations.

Example 3: The Galaxy-R could drop dramatically on the list if the player is a beginner.


I am assuming the Captain flying any of these Cruisers will be knowledgeable, understand the mechanics of the game, and will setup their ship using one of the many decent but proven PvP loadouts.


edit: Final list based on overall purpose and ability of the ship.


Winners: Galaxy-R - Excelsior - Star Cruiser (for healers / support)

2nd place and 4th choice overall: Sovereign

Absolutely dead last: Galaxy-X
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
What the Galaxy-X needs is a miles better turnrate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
This post was written by someone who tries to shield tank cruisers. It's the nub way that most people use. Now, if you hull-tank, you can spike damage on the Excelsior. The hull tank when backed up by an RSP or two becomes nearly a 14k sustainable DPS hull tank with damage output that is unmatched by any cruiser class ship.

Granted, a star cruiser can do the same exact thing (the assault cruiser as well). However, both of those ships have only a sliver of the damage potential that a T5 Excelsior has.

Anytime I see someone talk about RSP and APO on a cruiser... I just file them into the noob category. It's the standard cookie-cutter fit that PvP do0dZ use. With that being said, I add the OP's name to the list.

Why shield tank? The cruiser has 39k EHP base, but with platings providing another 38% resist to all, that becomes a 55k hp tank just off of items. Now, resist effects stack directly with those plates. This, gives an effective hull HP amount of over 70k HPs. Hull heals are mainly insta drop so you can't be sub nucced like with RSP or TSS. Your shields mean nothing anyway so you can do away with Emerg. to Shields and all of those other shield skills and replace them with damage, hull healing, and maybe an RSP for emergencies.

Hull heals also run on quicker timers than shield skills. With a massive hull tank, your ability to soak damage is infinitely better than shield tanking and, unlike shield tanking, it is uninterruptable. Since you don't need the shields, you can run max 125 weapon power with an engineer at all times without 7 guns ever causing the power bar to drain out past 100.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~InfoNinja
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
I concur with Ninja's Ranking. Seems Cryptic intentionally wanted the Sovereign to be the middle child. Not good at anything but not bad at anything.

Hard to believe they do this to the flagship of the Federation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xylander View Post
you can spike damage on the Excelsior. The hull tank when backed up by an RSP or two becomes nearly a 14k sustainable DPS hull tank with damage output that is unmatched by any cruiser class ship.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

2 short days ago, you were posting aggressive trollish insulting nonsense like this:

Quote:
Oh dear god, give me a break. What would be game changing is if it had an automated diaper dispenser for you.

IF the Excelsior were game changing, it would finish in the top of PvP results the majority of the time. I've done a LOT of pvp over the last 2 days and I routinely see them ranking in dead last.
So the excelsior went in 2 days from being dead last to being spike damage that is unmatched?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylander
Anytime I see someone talk about RSP and APO on a cruiser... I just file them into the noob category
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylander
The hull tank when backed up by an RSP or two becomes nearly a 14k sustainable DPS hull tank with damage output that is unmatched by any cruiser class ship.
noob.

when I read "The above assessments are correct and I have never observed anything that would prove the above list incorrect or invalid" I agreed all over my keyboard.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xylander View Post
This post was written by someone who tries to shield tank cruisers. It's the nub way that most people use. Now, if you hull-tank, you can spike damage on the Excelsior. The hull tank when backed up by an RSP or two becomes nearly a 14k sustainable DPS hull tank with damage output that is unmatched by any cruiser class ship.

Granted, a star cruiser can do the same exact thing (the assault cruiser as well). However, both of those ships have only a sliver of the damage potential that a T5 Excelsior has.

Anytime I see someone talk about RSP and APO on a cruiser... I just file them into the noob category. It's the standard cookie-cutter fit that PvP do0dZ use. With that being said, I add the OP's name to the list.

Why shield tank? The cruiser has 39k EHP base, but with platings providing another 38% resist to all, that becomes a 55k hp tank just off of items. Now, resist effects stack directly with those plates. This, gives an effective hull HP amount of over 70k HPs. Hull heals are mainly insta drop so you can't be sub nucced like with RSP or TSS. Your shields mean nothing anyway so you can do away with Emerg. to Shields and all of those other shield skills and replace them with damage, hull healing, and maybe an RSP for emergencies.

Hull heals also run on quicker timers than shield skills. With a massive hull tank, your ability to soak damage is infinitely better than shield tanking and, unlike shield tanking, it is uninterruptable. Since you don't need the shields, you can run max 125 weapon power with an engineer at all times without 7 guns ever causing the power bar to drain out past 100.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~InfoNinja
I think you need to play a little more with shields. They are a very good choice for tanking, but require MUCH MUCH more different playstyle, mindset and player-skill, compared to hull tanking, which is considerable more newbie friendly and easy.

Beside, the best players i know, can combine shield tanking with hull tanking and have best of two worlds. Shields with 75% dmg reduction backed up by some heals/regeneration can hold for very long time and if they fail, they can switch to hull tanking, while still keeping 125+ weapon power.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
Next time you're online xylander shoot me a message and we'll get a good premade match going. Show me how that l33t PvE Spectator Spec works in PvP! You'll be able to put your subnoob theory to the test in a real premade vs. premade match! I won't hold my breath ....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
I think you need to play a little more with shields. They are a very good choice for tanking, but require MUCH MUCH more different playstyle, mindset and player-skill, compared to hull tanking, which is considerable more newbie friendly and easy.

Beside, the best players i know, can combine shield tanking with hull tanking and have best of two worlds.
Agreed. But explaining that concept to a PvE'r like Xylander can be a challenge. I was hoping that the original list as well as the feedback from other experienced Cruiser pilots in this thread would be helpful and utilized by players in need such as Xylander. However someone like Xylander will usually have to die another 1000 times before they start sending tells on how they should spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum
So the excelsior went in 2 days from being dead last to being spike damage that is unmatched?
He changed his mind fast after what happened to his "hull tanker" in last night's Salvage. lol


edit:

back on topic -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomicile
Galaxy X needs a LtC Tac BO slot at the very least. Perhaps the ability to equip DC and DHC in the Aft Weapon slots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alendiak
What the Galaxy-X needs is a miles better turnrate.
I suspect that the Galaxy-X will probably get overlooked until the T5 refits are done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
I have no idea who you are?

I won't get into algebra with you on the subject. Instead, we'll start with basic math. Once you progress past that point... maybe we'll continue the lesson later:

59,000 - total base HPs after resists an average cruiser can have with hull plates
10400 - total base HPs after resists an average cruiser can have on their shields

You tell me: Why would you blow all of your skills on tanking out something that will never be as good as a hull tank's base hull HPs? Why is it hard to believe that a hull tank that uses instant only heals is immune to subnucleonic beam?

If you're basing your argument around RSP... that is a flawed thing since they are easily removed and/or drained out with TSS3. When you have no shields, you have no ship.

So, that's today's basic math class on why hull tanking works. Now, I also agree that adding in a couple of shield skills is preferable because, if anything, it gives you time to cycle your CDs on the hull heals. IMO, if you're heavily shield tank specced in a cruiser, you're really weak against good science ships and players who spec into plasma weaponry. I prefer a setup that might not be completely and totally uber, but it is able to do more healing over time than shield tanking which results in freeing up BO slots for more utility.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
I think you need to play a little more with shields. They are a very good choice for tanking, but require MUCH MUCH more different playstyle, mindset and player-skill, compared to hull tanking, which is considerable more newbie friendly and easy.

Beside, the best players i know, can combine shield tanking with hull tanking and have best of two worlds. Shields with 75% dmg reduction backed up by some heals/regeneration can hold for very long time and if they fail, they can switch to hull tanking, while still keeping 125+ weapon power.
Shield tanking is fantastic but is more challenging to pull off then your average hull healing tanking noob. This is one of the main reasons why it's overlooked by inexperienced players. I read your shield threads and it makes me want to pull off some of the crazy regen shield moves you do in pvp. I doubt I could do it justice like you but I do enjoy using it in combination with hull heals.
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