Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
06-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Nebula pve shield, hull and ground healer.

Bridge officer setup.

Tactical Lt: beam fire at will, Attack pattern Delta.

Engineering LtC: Emergency power to Aux, Engineering team II or Extend Shields (I haven't tested which I find more useful yet), Structural integrity Field II

Science Commander: Science team I, Transfer Shield Strength II, Science team III, Tyken's rift.

Universal Lt: Transfer shield strength I, Hazard emitters II.

Ensign Science: hazard emitters I.

I'll likely have to make some adjustments to allow for a rotation of commander abilities between Tyken's rift, Gravity Well and Charged Particle burst.


Power settings (Taken from human science captain on tribble)

56/50
56/50
29/25
108/75

Weapon system setup

Fore: 2 x beam weapons, 1 x Quantum Torpedo Launcher
Aft: 2 x beam weapons, 1 x Tricobalt Torpedo Launcher

Tips

Your main focus should always be on the shield levels of your allies. Depending on the situation it may be worth burning a hazards 1 to remove debuffs which may drain shields or prevent the draining of shields. Try using your lower rank abilities earlier in the fight and your higher rank later. This can lead to a full shield restoration in a pinch.

Remember to use the nebula's special ability and have all the power in Aux you can get before you use your sensor scan.

If you really want to deal some damage, Emg power to Aux, Tyken's rift, come about and count to 7 once you've used your tyken's rift. At 7 fire the tricobalt torpedo and hope no one shoots it down. It you're lucky the target's shields should drop just before the torpedo hits.

The efficient impulse engines provide an additional 5 power to Weapons, Shields and Aux at a cost of speed and turn rate.

Enjoy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
06-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Three down, one post to go.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
06-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Done, hopefully yall find it useful and come up with some new ideas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
06-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Thanks, dude.
I'm going to try some of these builds next week as I've wanted to try something different with my science captain in my new Intrepid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
06-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Well I haven't looked at most of these in depth, but I have to say I do not like how often RSP shows up in them. Its not a good thing to suggest with the nerf around the corner.

I did catch the 'power diver' build which I've used a variation of to good effect in an RSV. I'd actually say the RSV is better for this, because it has the maneuverability to turn back onto the target if you overshoot at the end of the run (remember DSSV has lousy inertia), so they don't get out of shockwave range. But more experience using it might avoid that.

In my experience, though, you want to run something like 50 engines/100 aux, because I had problems overshooting my targets with lower aux and more speed. Running less in engines and aux will result in the target not getting pushed as far as you might expect, and that is the whole point of the build. Aux improves the repel and damage of TBR, which again is important so you don't overshoot them with evasive maneuvers. Also you need to be mindful of whether your target has aux to dampners, because that will ruin your run entirely.

I'd also highly suggest a regular tractor beam in that build, because it will be ready very soon after the TBR run, but any number of things can be useful with it. Target engines, chronitons of course, tricobalts even.

The build can also be used to isolate escorts from a team, and basically force them into a duel which you can probably win by restricting their turning with the various tools.

The problem with TBR is that its very problematic to use for much else, so if isolating someone isn't necessary or useful, its just a waste of a slot. Also, once a smart team knows you're doing this, you become a major focus fire target, and they may even chase you on your run.

So its a really useful thing to be able to do, but honestly I would never build around this sole purpose. You definitely want a second commander power for times when TBR just isn't needed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
06-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
Well I haven't looked at most of these in depth, but I have to say I do not like how often RSP shows up in them. Its not a good thing to suggest with the nerf around the corner.
To be fair, most of the time I suggested alternative setups that people could use; I wanted people to realize all the options open at that point; and though it has been nerfed (and about time), if used right it's still a free ticket to restore every shield facing to full power before it expires and you need another buff, so I still put it on there for people to think about.

As for the Dive thoughts, the point of the build was for group support (i.e. taking out the healer or w/e and holding them in place to make it easier for the group); but you make a fair point on employing it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
06-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoberraz View Post
I do believe that the science vessel should be able to function on its own everybit as well as the escort and the cruiser. I believe that once these vessels team up, each provide an asset that others do not have which increases thier team performance dramatically.

Sivar, you seem to stress that the science vessels have everything they need to have, and that anyone whom can't make as much with them is an incompetent. I can't say I appreciate that point of view because not only is it based on the equivalent of "I'm right because you suck", which is kind of rude, but I also do happen to disagree with you and feel that something is missing to science vessels because they're not solid, valued picks in comparison to the two other fed ship types. That's my opinion.
I understand why you might feel that way from reading my posts thus far and in other threads. Believe it or not, I am not trying to put myself up on a pedestal, but rather it is the result of building frustration from a discussion running for months.

The entire reason that I made these posts is to give people a starting point and to help them gain perspective on building a Science ship, and that the Science ship is able to function on it's own, as well as what situations it functions best.

How you use the information that I've posted here is ultimately up to you and the other readers. The reason that I reply rather fiercely to certain people is so that newcomers to the profession and ship do not automatically gain the wrong idea and write off a part of the game before even trying it out just because some people have not been happy with Science ships for months.

If that causes you to think of me as being rude, then as I said, I understand and I am sorry but I would rather people think me a little rude then newer players write off Science ships before giving them a shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoberraz View Post
I never approved of Science ships getting more weapon slots
Regardless of reasons for keeping weapon slots down, I agree that they should not get anymore
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
06-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sivar View Post
Well there are more than a few questions that need answering before a good BoP build can be put together. For example:

-Do you want to be using full sci powers? (parallel to the sci ship?)
-Do you want to be a healer?
-Do you want cannons or beams?
-Do you want kinetics (torps, mines) or not?
-Do you want high spike damage?

and so on; answer those and it will be a lot easier for you, me, or anybody to formulate a build....
So on the Kling side, I was correct that there is no dedicated Sci ship (at present)? But the BoP is the prefered substitute (and not a carrier)?

Hmmm.... I would think being that I'm looking to be a "Sci KDF" then option one, Full (or nearly, obviously) Sci powers. I'd prefer to pass on Healer for now. I like your Shield Killer, Breaker, Siphon Stomp, and Clutter Nightmare ideas best from the OP.

I like beams, but then I've never really used cannon, so I'm not a fair judge. Torps are good (I love Quantums, especially), never could get mines to work well. High Spike Damage is always nice. Can you build a "Tactical or a DPS Sci" in a BoP? Say an (more) offensive version of the Shield Killer?

Thanks for your thoughts/help Sivar

I'm really enjoying the debate on the third-classness of the Sci Ship when compared to Escorts/Cruisers. One thing I really don't get about Sci ships is why they only have +10 to Aux Power. Cruisers get +20 divided evenly, Escorts get +15 to Weapon Power.

Sci ships should have +15 to Aux.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
06-09-2011, 12:39 PM
That's... ah...

Okay, I really do appreciate insight in your adamant stance. Thanks. I'll be happy to agree to disagree with your general stance on science vessel and how they 'are fine' in another thread - here, I'll stop going on a tangent and help out by providing insights on what we have in our hands right now.

So, here I go:

I personally like the concept behind Scramble Sensors. I'm not specced in it right now so it only lasts 20 seconds for me, and they've got two benefits: the first is that they start to shoot at each other, the second is that they stop shooting at me. I value the latter more than the former because the damage output of frigates is too measly to really do much against themselves. Scramble Sensors seems by far most effective in fleet actions in my experience.

Mask Energy signature (I had version III) was one of my favorite "go undercover and scout out mission objectives" power. I hear to lately got a really nice stealth boost that made it a lot more realible on the detection beyond 10km front... but I haven't tried it again - the big downer for me was how MES no longer allowed to interact with objects (be it scanning derelict freighters to borg nodes), depriving me of my Cloak-and-Dagger activity outlet. *sigh*

I once loved Jam Sensors - I was top specced in sensor arrays and had Jam Sensors III in my powers. It seemed like the ideal replacement for scramble sensors when I foght single opponents. Unfortunately, with it going fragile, I considered that it lost a lot of luster. My "take a break in being hit and hit back some while it lasts" power went to "get a break from damage from this target, but don't hit back!" Meh. Maybe this is just me having been spoiled by that power, but it seemed like a nice opportunity to go and actually apply some more damage on my target and try to outmaneuver it (average weapon power allocation and limited weaponry had me convinced it wasn't overpowered).

I once tried a build I meant to be a movement limiting one: I went with chroniton torpedoes, tractor beams, gravity well and I tossed in Tyken's Rift too (I figured I could use it after the 15 sec cooldown). TR2, despite being specced, never seemed to amount to much, unfortunately (even with me using tractor beam to have the opponent linger in the rift - I didn't have the damage output to take advantage of the very brief shield drop when it happened - and that was typically when I combined it with target subsystems shields). The movement reduction was nice to see... but it really didn't seem to count for all that much in the way of actually winning fights. Maybe it bothered other players in PvP, but they always seemed to shrug it off and then turn about to tear me to pieces.

Another build I tried focused more on Tyken Rift 2 and Energy Siphon 3. After not really liking what I saw of the lonely TR2 in my build in the paragraph above, I wanted to put more powers into it. Only, I specced in it after realizing I had a cooldown conflict due to the deflector dish being contingented. I did go and use the Syphon first because it lasted longer, and made sure to stick a tractor beam on the target of my TK2, but my window of opportunity to shoot through shields was still very small - not enough to see some big advantage in PvE fights - I was still stuck sooner or later having to burn through shields to get at my target... which pretty much render the whole drain attempt pretty redundant. The benefits and impact of Siphon seemed very lackluster to me, and not worth ever trying out again (I was well specced to use it and it was my strongest sci power on hand... but -10 to all target systems and +10 to mine just... doesn't cut it for me).

Figuring that I was stuck with dealing shield damage anyhow, well, I turned to a more self-sufficient build made to be a shield stripper - 2 tachyon beams 3, charged particle pulse 3, Hazard Emitters 2, Transfer Shield Strength 2, Polarize hull 1 and Science Team 1 - basically everything I need to heal myself or buddies, and to deal some potent damage on the shields of opposing targets (though I sort of miss tractor beam). In terms of performance, it shines a lot more in both PvE and PvP with the benefits much more obvious (and thus, feeling more rewarding to use). Polarize Hull is there before, well, I fight Breen frigate oftens and they're pretty liberal with their tractor beams.

I made a sight tweak on it after I fought against a team that included Edgecase driving around in his own Recon Sci vessel. It resulted in this sort of nightmarish match where my PuG got torn to shreds - and apparently what had contributed to that was the stunning effects of photonic shockwaves and tricobalt warheads. I was impressed - seriously, I was just hovering there, a complete sitting duck while I was blown up in seconds. It was a pretty humbling experience.

I've no liking of tricobalt warheads. Anything that goes and puts to waste my tactical boff powers irks me, so, I prefer sticking to quantum torpedoes along with my high yield powers (I tried torpedo spread and gave it an honest chance to wow me... and it never really has done anything but look cool visually). But I went and switched one of my tachyon beams with photonic shockwave. In PvE, the stun isn't all that obvious, the damage against bared hull is a miserable 2-3k, and the push is kinda cool to see; but having been on the receiving end of it in PvP I figure that maybe I just need to learn to use it with better timing to see more out of it. Plus, it's supposed to hinder cloak, so I could idly use it and ruin a BoP pilot's attempt to retreat and battlecloak by chance.

Um, another thing I've been experimenting with was my lieutenant engineering power. I'm very partial to Engineering Team 1 and Emergency Power to Shields 2 and it's what I'm sticking with right now (I don't rely on RSP, so, no one can accuse me of having green diapers, ha! Also, EPtS2 just feels more reliable for everyday recovery purposes), but I've also tried Auxiliary to Battery. Aux to Battery is actually pretty nice - get a big power boost on everything else while Aux zeroes out. My main problem with it, though, is that 10 seconds is just way too short, and that Auxiliary power then takes time to recover despite my investment in a good EPS console. I end up thinking that it's just better for my troubles to rely on offensive science powers with longer cooldowns, then switch power to weapon, hammer as hard as I can at my target, and once my powers are about to become available again, I preemptively switch my power back.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
06-09-2011, 12:39 PM
The post on Energy Siphon made me thing for a moment.
ES gives -10 to all energy and +10 to your own.
Compared that to what beam target subsystem drains (-20 and more) or what an Emergency Power to Something grants (what's the lowest you get? +16?). Sure, t hose are two powers and its just one energy - but -10 hardly affects anyone at all, and the cooldowns of BTSS and EptX are far better.
Can anyone make the case that Energy Siphon is actually a good power on its own? Or is it just for the "extra boost" in case that BTSX II and Tyken's Rift don't reduce someones energy to 0? Can that be enough for a Lt.Skill?
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