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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
06-14-2011, 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
The goal of the whitelist was "If we only use skills on the whitelist, you promise not to warp out on us."
The goal of this thread is "If you don't do as we say, we don't like you anymore."
Yep - that's the impression I get, and I didn't mean to imply that the intention of this thread is the same. What I liked about the whitelist, and I'd like to see here though, is a definitive list of what abilities the OP is referring to.

The word "cheese" is just a label that anyone can stick on an ability or setup that annoys them. Running 3 or more carriers, and all that pet spamming could be considered cheese, which I've seen at least one of the listed "no cheese" fleets use frequently in the past. Please be specific, rather than using such a vague term, as I doubt the fleets in your list even agree exactly what is or isn't in the "cheese" category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
The whitelist had never been an attempt to get other fleets to use only whitelisted abilities. It was about taking away their justifications for warping out. But players apparently don't need reasons for warping out and so they kept doing it even against FAW/SS/mine-free teams.
This has been my experience too. I've run in premades that haven't run FAW, SS, or mines, in an effort to prevent the QQ/warp-outs, but 9/10's of the time, they'll still find some other ability or team setup to use as a reason to QQ or warp out. My favorite are the teams that repeatedly warp-out without a word, so yes, apparently players don't need reasons to warp out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
Of course I know that there is a difference between FAW, Hargh'pengs, torpedoes and shields. But whereas hargh'pengs are OP because of bugs, FAW's problems are not because of bugs.

I just want you to be really clear about the fact that your "code of conduct" extends far beyond "don't exploit bugs" which probably everyone can subscribe to.
Yes, this is my issue with this thread. Lets be honest about what this thread is about. Its clearly not just about exploiting broken skills at all, but forcing your opinions on others.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
06-14-2011, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom


And who defines broken skills? My personal list of broken skills includes only the currently truly bugged Harg'pengs. New Faw™ is in the "stupid and unbalanced" category and SS-spam (more than 2 high level SS per team or something) is "not fun", but I don't consider these skills broken. New Faw™ is for the most part working as originally intended (although apparently Cryptic's intention may have shifted by now) and SS has more or less always been the way it is now.
Blah blah blah, you and everyone else knows its garbage. You knew extend shields were garbage. Yet you choose to run it.

Therefore your team is not on the cheese free list, simple as that....good day!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
06-14-2011, 08:22 AM
Extend is cheese now too? Where will it end? You do know that PSW is a great counter. TBR isn't half bad either. Stop those extends the moment they come up and the other side is wasting their Cmdr. eng slots.

Also, Sci Fleet + EPtS = shield cap anyway. I guess we should ban science captains now. Hop to it, build police!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
06-14-2011, 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
tsi fun day was intended to be more about having fun then having pure teams set out to win. we realized after the fact that even skills that dont seam op on their own can feel that way in the wrong/right hands.

extended shields is being considered to being restricted to crusiser class ships only (so in theory only 1 can be up at a time).

there was nothign stoping other teams from taking extened shields and i personally may have taken a copy myself.
Honestly we had a great time at the "fun day". I was cool to see so many teams come with "fun" setups. It was cool to see so many fleets get into the spirit, and show up in there klinks they don't play often, ect. We had a great after turny match with Risa. They had a cool fun team, they ran a very good mix on there 2 sci ships. Tykens can be nasty with out faw around to kill it. Honestly I think that was the only 20 min + match I have ever been in where I didn't want to claw my eyes out. I would say almost everyone came and played within the "spirit" of a fun day, that most of us where expecting. I don't know to be honesty loading multiple copies of extend seemed like a team make up for another event. Congrats though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
06-14-2011, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Extend is cheese now too? Where will it end? You do know that PSW is a great counter. TBR isn't half bad either. Stop those extends the moment they come up and the other side is wasting their Cmdr. eng slots.

Also, Sci Fleet + EPtS = shield cap anyway. I guess we should ban science captains now. Hop to it, build police!
Well seeing as LORE didn't come out for the TSI turnny... LOL jorf.
The rules limited any team to a MAX of 2 counters on a 45 second cool down and a 3km range... and one team ran more then 2 copies... I won't say that people could not have loaded there own Extends a couple shocks, perhaps a TBR or 2.... they won clean as per there rules. It just seems everyone other then them came expecting to have some non cheese matches. They just seem to have looked a little harder to dig the cheese up within the rules, then the rest of us. (honestly we didn't even bring one shockwave, we where there to have fun.. and promote it and all)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
06-14-2011, 08:37 AM
Jorf: Wait until you see what they did in the tourny with them.

The worst part is Im a strong believer in "use whatever you want, the other team/guy has to find a way to beat it" when it comes to playing games competitively, but this game is so unbalanced now with all the updates the only way it's playable is through house rules. I HATE house rules, but skills that break game play elements (SS, FAW, etc.) have to have something done about them by the community if the devs will not.

However, this topic is very simple. Its obvious what is broken in this game (dont play stupid). Everyone has a choice. Every team has the powers to boot players from their fleet if they do not follow the rules. Again, if you want to use what's clearly broken, you simply wont make the list. Go back to tihnking youre the best with your joke cheese setups that are killing the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
06-14-2011, 08:40 AM
The fact that the skills in question can overpower opponents with relative ease prove that the skills need a balance pass. I do think that individuals running these builds are working within the system and I also think limiting a ship's loadout is too restrictive, we are talking about 5 or 6 skills/weapons that are deemed op which limits individuality and creativity. Two questions: how can anybody have a good time curb stomping players with these op builds? And isn't the exodus of players that is caused by this cheese hurting cryptic?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
06-14-2011, 09:26 AM
Well jeez, if I woulda know my little 22% extend 1 on my fleet escort was gonna be such an issue I would have never used it or that ship . Apologies for the cheese.

It's too bad everyday isn't Fun Day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
06-14-2011, 09:50 AM
Honestly, if TSI running extends took you by surprise you've had your head buried deep in the sand. Or you're just dumb for expecting them to not use a skill they use all which is not barred in the rules. What exactly did you seriously expect?

And like Rock said, extend 1's aren't even much of an issue. I'd rather have an RSP1 on each person than having them casting weak extends all over the place that can be shock-waved away. The higher level extends are where it's at.

Less QQ more Pew Pew.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
06-14-2011, 09:59 AM
This thread is being closed due to violations of the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
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