Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1081
08-26-2011, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
I find people will specialize themselves. In most MMOs with crafting categories, crafters only max out a few. Most of the players that use Duty Officer assignments will have a few favorites so there is no need for forced specialization IMO.
Agreed. While it should still be open to the people who want it all, most people would most likely just stick with a few commendation categories. This would be particularly true for those who like to roleplay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1082
08-26-2011, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Armstrong View Post
Agreed. While it should still be open to the people who want it all, most people would most likely just stick with a few commendation categories. This would be particularly true for those who like to roleplay.
Towards this end, perhaps titles and commendations for maxing combinations of paths? Like a maxed out Marauder who also maxes out Colonial could become a Pirate Lord or a maxed out Engineer who also maxes out Espionage can become a Jeffrey's Tube Technician.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1083
08-26-2011, 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukedom View Post
Back on page 25 I already proposed dimishing returns on comendation XP based on how far you've progressed.
I think a diminishing return based on how many Commendation categories you've maxed out is really the best of both worlds. I prevents rampant maxing of all categories while still allowing players to do as they wish. It also has the in-game logic of 'it's hard to be good at everything'.


Z
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1084
08-26-2011, 10:49 AM
I think the standard should be no specialization. On the flipside, I think specialization boosts should be offered that boost one category while slowing another. This allows a casual person to complete their category of choice faster while taking longer with other categories.

The default would be no specialization. The OPTION would be tradeoffs to get the one you want faster.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1085
08-26-2011, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zordar View Post
I think a diminishing return based on how many Commendation categories you've maxed out is really the best of both worlds. I prevents rampant maxing of all categories while still allowing players to do as they wish. It also has the in-game logic of 'it's hard to be good at everything'.


Z
and min-maxers getting every path to 10 experience less than cap before maxing them all out in a dramatic explosion of advancement!

But in all honesty I'm against diminishing returns based on the number of paths you have maxed out. For a casual player like me it is, in essence saying effort invested three months from now will be less rewarding than effort invested immediately.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1086
08-26-2011, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
and min-maxers getting every path to 10 experience less than cap before maxing them all out in a dramatic explosion of advancement!
Applying dimishing returns only at the end of the comendation categories would be indeed stupid. What a luck that neither of us is that stupid isn't it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1087
08-26-2011, 11:21 AM
Well, making the progression in every next tier of the same commendadtion category require more time would already introduce a need of specialisation in order to reach some high level goals. In my opinion this is better than to enforce specialisation with technical means.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1088
08-26-2011, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
and min-maxers getting every path to 10 experience less than cap before maxing them all out in a dramatic explosion of advancement!
That's how things would work with no diminishing returns.

In order to make maxing all Commendation categories very challenging but not impose artificial caps some kind of diminishing returns system is almost a must. Whether it goes by DOff XP totals, levels achieved across all Commendation categories or something else, reducing DOff XP awards or increasing DOff XP needed (net result is the same) would be far more preferable than outright hard caps, even if it's just within Commendation categories (so level 1 is pretty easy, level 2 twice as difficult, level 3 you need to work for it, etc). IMO that's how they should have gone with the skill tree, too, in lieu of the 72700 ceiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
But in all honesty I'm against diminishing returns based on the number of paths you have maxed out. For a casual player like me it is, in essence saying effort invested three months from now will be less rewarding than effort invested immediately.
Every level-based system is more-or-less a diminishing return (or an increasing relative cost) system. You have to work harder the higher you get. If all categories take the same time and effort to max out, Cryptic will need to account for the 4-5+ hour a day min-maxers that will powerplay the system as fast as they can, in order to prevent them from topping out in a week. That means for a casual gamer playing maybe 5-8 hours a week maxing one category will take months. Conversely, if each Commendation category level has increasing costs [x] number of categories currently at that level (or something like that), then both hardcore and casual players will make fairly quick progress initially but have their DOff advancement slowed the higher they get in multiple categories. Players may be able to achieve level 2 in all categories with casual play in a relatively short amount of time (which would keep people interested) but have to focus more on DOff-play to achieve higher levels in multiple categories.

I'd rather something like this than hard caps any day. As always, YMMV.


Z
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1089
08-26-2011, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zordar View Post
I'd rather something like this than hard caps any day. As always, YMMV.


Z
Ditto.

/10 char
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1090
08-26-2011, 04:06 PM
Diminishing returns is already built in to the existing progression schedule for commendation tiers in the form of it taking more commendation xp in a category to get from Tier 2 to Tier 3 than from Tier 1 to Tier 2.

That being said, there is a limit to how long you can expect a player to wait until they get a "ding" before they'll give up on trying to advance in the system. For example, in most MMORPGs, the first ten levels are a great string of dings where you feel like you are constantly getting rewarded. By the time you are on the last ten levels, however, it can feel like you are on a treadmill going nowhere...you know how it goes, "Great, I just spent an evening to advance two pixels on my xp count. Maybe I'll just play some <insert other game> tonight instead."

So, diminishing returns may or may not be able to solve the issue all on its own. Where it is currently set now may in fact work just fine, or it may need additional mechanisms to make the progression feel right to everybody involved, most importantly the playerbase.
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